I find marking one question out of all the test is faster. In addition, it helps keep the marking consistent has you our only focusing on one question, regardless of the marking scheme. Your third suggest said to give students more than enough space to write answers. I wouldn’t give more space than is required on average to complete the question as it may allude what is required. I remember one teacher giving to much space. He only wanted a one line answer and people gave him a half a page answer, wasting valuable time on the test which could have been used on other questions (Likely I skipped the question until someone asked what he wanted at the end). Also I know a lot of kids who would want the average. Do we give in and give them the average? Or just keep with the general feedback. Everything else I agreed on. (Justin Schulte)
Justin, I agree that is might be fairer to mark one question at a time, but (a) how do you get past the boredom and (b) how do you get a sense of the individual student? I have tried this method and I find I have a good idea about the question performance but I forget individual students and do not have a sense of how well a single student did. In other words, I focus on questions not students and it didn't feel quite right. What say you?
How do you guess at what "every" student will require to show their work in a problem. Some need more and some need less, so giving a little more space is maybe a good option, especially when you explain to the class why you are doing this. I know you had one memorable experience BUT don't let that dictate your practice for the rest of your life. You need to critically evaluate how you might address this situation. How could I have re-word this suggestion to make it more palatable for you?
Regrading "the average" - you, as the professional teacher, need to think about the teaching and learning value of giving averages. What specific kids are asking for the average and why? Kids don't always know what is best for the whole class. In my mind, averages just feed the power of grades and I like to focus on learning. BTW - In my 20 odd years of teaching (even thought 20 is not an odd number) I don't recall students ever wanting the average?
music? When marking you shouldn't even be looking at who wrote the test, since it will probably effective your consistency in marking. You get a sense of how well a single student did when you finish marking the tests and look back to pin point where students are having difficulty. There is no playing favorites with this method:P and you don't lose that sense of how a individual student is doing by looking back at the tests after there were marked.
No idea:S I agree that you should give enough space and knowing how much space one individual might need is difficult. But I dont want to miss lead them either. Have to find a happy medium:)
Really? that's odd, throughout high school all the students always wined about what the average was (not me by the way). But I agree with you with the fact that students are to grades focused in school. The wrong type of motivation.
I'm stunned - so marking is about supposed "objectivity" - we don;t care who the students are, it's all about the test. Don't forget, the student is the important factor here, not the questions. You seem to be treating the questions with more respect than the students.
Yes, you could play favourites, but simply being aware that a student might be a favourite is good knowledge for you to gain and if you have an effective grading scheme, you should be good to go.
Regarding space - you HAVE to have an idea - you are the teacher. Just announcing that you have given more space, just in case someone writes big or needs it, plus noting the number of marks per questions should be enough.
There are all sorts of habits/patterns you may have experienced in high school which (a) may not have been the norm for everyone else and (b) may have been destructive and not helpful with respect to learning.
After watching the video, I found that I really agreed with giving part marks when marking as well as having an answer sheet available right after the test. I think that giving students a mark breakdown when teaching how to properly do the questions is an effective way for the students to learn. Also, then when doing the test, they won’t lose marks for small errors they may have missed. Also, from experience, I found that having a mark breakdown available for the class right after the test was very effective. This eliminated getting the same question asked multiple times after the test and also can help ease the students’ anxiety about the answers. Two points that I did not agree with were leaving lots of space on the test and giving general feedback and not a numeric average at the end of a test. When a teacher leaves too much space on a test, the students may assume that they need to give a longer answer which could take up valuable time. Leaving an adequate amount of room on the test however, is ideal. I also think that giving an academic class a numeric average is more effective as these students are normally more competitive and it gives them something to work for. If an applied class though, I think that general feedback is the more effective way to go. (Katie Hughes)
Hi Katie, I see your point about giving space AND how do your determine the right amount of space considering individual differences in writing size and abilities to show one's work? Could you not explain to the students that you have left a good amount of space so they have the opportunity to show their work AND that they are not required to fill the space. AND I would encourage them to ALWAYS look at the value of a question.
Regarding giving an average in any class, what teaching and learning advantage does this provide? The disadvantage is that about half of the class will feel they are not good enough. Giving averages also seems to emphasize grades and competition, two factors that have been well-researched as having a negative influence on learning for a lot of students. What say you?
When considering the amount of space to leave on a test, the size of the students writing should be taken into account but then there should also be extra room at the end of the test for those students that run out of room. I think the most important point to tell the students is to take into consideration the number of marks that the question is worth. This should help guide them to the appropriate amount to write. As for providing the class with an average, I don't feel that it provides an advantage at all. I just know that as a student, the class average was normally given to us and it either made me work harder to attain that average or keep working hard to stay above it. I do however see how it may discourage students in the class so a better approach might be to just to give helpful feedback on certain questions that the class as a whole struggled on.
Okay - so the average motivated you to try to work harder toward being like everyone else or maybe a little better. My new question is, does the number represented by an "average" mean anything with respect to actual learning? And why does being "average" or "above average" mean so much? And with respect to feedback, wouldn't individual feedback be the best approach?
I have never really considered how long creating a good assessment takes. The 3-7 hr timeframe seems really long at first, but if you think about all of the prep work that goes into it, it makes sense since the questions need to be clear, the spacing is appropriate and the answer key needs to be made (they are really helpful).
Dividing the questions into steps is important to create consistency in your marking. Students will compare tests and if one gets more part marks than another you will get complaints and accusations of favouritism.
I also agree that questions should match what was taught. If you try to make a student learn something just a little different on a test they will be confused and will not have had an opportunity to ask questions about the new material. This type of question would make a good bonus question though.
Accomodating for students with IEPs is not something I have much experience with, but it is important to consider IEPs when making a test. We need to give every student a fair chance to succeed.
Marking one question at a time is a good idea in theory since it should lead to more consistency. However, I feel that I would personally get bored doing the same question over and over again. Marking the whole test would help me stay mentally engaged and should lead to fewer errors on my part.
I think that general feedback is a good idea, but I am not against giving out the average either. I think that many students want to know where they stand and might be motivated to try harder if they get a mark below average (although that is more likely with older students). (Ted)
Hi Ted, I was wondering what you think the qualities and purpose of a good bonus question is? I wonder if there is any value to a bonus question whatsoever in terms of teaching and learning - I'm sure sure. What do you think?
My experience with marking questions matches your feelings - I did get bored marking the same question and I never got a real sense of individual students.
Regarding average, I would encourage you to think about all students, not just the few who would be motivated by grades. What teaching and learning advantage is there to giving an average? What is students are working hard and reaching their potential? Does average mean anything?
I think a good bonus question would be good to motivate the higher level students and can give them a challenge. I don't think that a bonus question should be worth too many marks, since we mostly want to assess their abilities on the actual course work. I think the bonus question should cover something related to the unit, but be a higher level question or involve more difficult algebra to be challenging.
I still think that marks motivate students to try harder, but they are more motivated by thier personal goals/expectations and are more competitive with their own friends, who they exchange marks with anyways. So I guess that average doesn't mean too much to them.
Money, prizes, rewards do motivate students but that doesn't mean they are actually learning. And this kind of motivation is extrinsic and fleeting. Intrinsic rewards are typically more meaningful and long lasting. I would rather my students truly love math than get high grades.
I definitely agreed with the fact that it is very challenging to be clear in your instructions or assessment questions. I also agree with making revisions often and not using the same assessments from year to year. I think part marks are SO important. If a student makes a mistake in one of the earlier steps and carries on, the answer will be incorrect, but it's important to recognize that the student understand the method of solving a math problem. Unlike the majority of people, I would argue that giving the class general feedback is better than giving a class average. While marks are important and usually are a reflection of a student's standing, giving feedback is much more important for students to grow and learn from their mistakes. In my opinion, mentioning that class average is X creates an unnecessary "hierarchy" in the class, leaving some students disappointed. I do not agree with leaving more than enough room for students to answer a question. In my opinion, if there is too much room on the page, students might think that there is more to the answer and wonder what they are missing. (Diana)
A thoughtful reflection (maybe because I agree with it - smile).
How do you determine what enough space is in a question? From my experience, teachers (me) are really bad at doing this. So why might it be difficult for a teacher to figure out how much space is needed?
Most often, questions involving steps should be answered as each line representing a step. When creating the assessment questions in a word processor, I would type the steps for the answer as well, and look at how much space that takes. I would then leave a few extra lines of space in the blank test to accommodate for students with larger writing. That being said, we can't assume that students know to format their answer this way, and so we have to also teach students that each step should be written on a different line directly underneath the previous step.
I really don't think it does... I am not referring to giving students steps for solving a problem (ex. What is the vertical change? What is the horizontal change? What is the ratio between them? and Which section is the steepest?). What I am referring to is, as the teacher, solving the problem you are posing to your students, whether that may be a computational problem or an open-ended word problem with real world applications. While doing this, look at how much space is needed for you to solve. (I am making the assumption that as the teacher you have a high level of knowledge about the subject, and will be using Occam's razor principle in using the least number of steps required to solve). Then, leave a bit extra space for your students.
I agree with you on all of the points and partially on #9. When marking, I think I would prefer to mark one page at a time. This would help to ensure consistency as well as minimize the marker’s boredom. Having full answer sheet available is also important for consistency and accuracy when marking. It is understandable that it takes a long time to write a good assessment. Writing the assessment, writing the answer key and then marking the assessment, each take a long time if done well. Providing an appropriate amount space for students’ answers is important. Personally, I found it extremely frustrating when I ran out of space for my answers on a test. I think that part marks are necessary. They give the students hope and demonstrate to them that what they know and their work still has value even if they don’t get a correct final answer. The emphasis is on the process of getting the answer and not only on the final answer. Part marks also encourage the students to at least attempt every question. (Inga)
Hi Inga, I agree that is might be fairer to mark one question at a time, but (a) how do you get past the boredom and (b) how do you get a sense of the individual student? I have tried this method and I find I have a good idea about the question performance but I forget individual students and do not have a sense of how well a single student did. In other words, I focus on questions not students and it didn't feel quite right. What say you?
And what did you disagree with in the assessment video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrxrGOLxMPQ - there must have been something.
Very good video on assessment! All the points were relevant, and I never even thought of the last point about not giving out percentages, but instead some general feedback. Typically I have just given general feedback because I rarely get through marking a test in a single night, and students want feedback as soon as possible. I never thought of how students would feel by hearing an actual numerical percentage.
When it comes to marking whole test vs. one question, I am the one question marker. If I arrange the tests on a table so that the same one question is shown for all tests, I can just plow through really fast and be consistent in my marking. I generally take up an entire table during this type of marking.
HI Adele, I agree that is might be fairer to mark one question at a time, but (a) how do you get past the boredom and (b) how do you get a sense of the individual student? I have tried this method and I find I have a good idea about the question performance but I forget individual students and do not have a sense of how well a single student did. In other words, I focus on questions not students and it didn't feel quite right. What say you?
Any other points you want to make for http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrxrGOLxMPQ
a) It would have to be a very long test for me to get bored. I usually am able to use this method to mark a test fast enough that I can get through it before I get bored (listening to music helps too). b) I purposely avoid getting a sense of the individual student while marking a test, to keep from letting my opinion of the student affect my marking. After all the marking is completed, I will create page totals and test totals, and am able to reflect on the individual students.
Yes - I understand you purposely avoiding getting a sense of the student for "objectivity", but that really doesn't sound right. As a teacher I want to get to know my students, there personal ways of thinking, so I can help them and make suggestions. As long as my scoring scheme is sound, I don't worry about bias. I tried the one item at a time approach a number of times and I had no feel of how my students did. I felt like a robot grading tests.
After watching the video, I agreed on the majority of your opinions. To begin, you mentioned that students should be given an ample amount of space to answer the questions. However, if this is done for all questions, students will be unsure of what is expected of them (e.g. if the answer is a single sentence, students might wonder whether they have read the question incorrectly). However, if each question states how much it is worth, this confusion can be avoided (i.e. question is out of 3, the teacher expects 3 points to be written).
You also mentioned that teachers should not provide the class average after a test. I believe that providing feedback on student success is much more important and an appropriate approach. However, there will always be (at least at the high school level) students who will be interested in this percentage. Is there a suitable method for dealing with this situation?
I also agree with providing part marks. Math isn’t only about getting the final answer; the process of getting to that answer is far more important. I do agree that students should be encouraged to show all of their steps since this improves their communication skills. However, as mentioned last class, some students do not show all of their steps since they do the math in their head. It is highly probable that as a future teacher I will have these students in my classroom, and thus, I will encourage them to show as much work as they can. I will need to communicate to my class (on several occasions) what is expected of them and make an answer key that is consistent with what I have said in order to encourage fairness.
Lastly, I also strongly agree with no trick questions on tests. I believe that the point of evaluation is to see if your students are able to understand what you taught them. Testing them on more difficult questions is unfair and causes students to become frustrated, discouraged and lack self-esteem. Nonetheless, trick questions as bonus are fair game.
Hi Christine, This is a very thoughtful and detailed reply. Regarding averages, I would say to students that I don't give them out. That they should be focussing on their own learning - how well other people do in the class is not going to help them learn more and grow as a student. I "may" have had to do that once and students never asked again. Thoughtful feedback about specific questions was far more helpful, at least in my mind.
Regrading part marks - I genuinely wonder if we have to be careful about what we give part marks for. Sometimes students understand a "procedure" in math but really do not understand the concept. They can get a pretty good grade on a question, but my feeling is they really did not understand what was going on? How would you address that?
I was wondering what you think the qualities and purpose of a good bonus question is? I wonder if there is any value to a bonus question whatsoever in terms of teaching and learning - I'm sure sure. What do you think?
I do believe that students get into the habit of following procedure rather than understanding the material. Many students simply memorize what has been done in class in order to be successful on the test. If I feel my students are getting into this habit, I will encourage them to focus on understanding the material. This can be done by incorporating more communication questions on their tests (i.e. explain your steps, explain why this is the wrong procedure to use in this question etc.). In addition, evaluating students orally would be a relatively effective method in gauging students’ understanding of concepts since memorization is not emphasized.
In addition, I believe bonus questions can be both effective and ineffective. To begin, in a class where students are strong academically, this is a great tool to ensure motivation and engagement are maintained (while encouraging positive competition). In addition, bonus questions in this type of classroom push students to reach their full potential and develop intellectually. However, in a class where only a few students (or no students) are exceptionally strong academically, it can hinder student performance. Either no students will be able to get the bonus question or a few students get it every time. This fact, generally, discourages students who aren’t as strong academically and causes them to lose confidence and motivation. More specifically, during my placement, we had daily brainteasers. Almost every day, one student in particular would get the answer before the rest of the class. This fact discouraged others from wanting to participate since they felt as though they had no chance. As a result, the bell ringer activities were changed daily (not just brain teasers) to give the rest of the class a chance.
Ultimately, I believe bonus questions do have a time and place, however, whether or not they are effective is dependent on the type of question and the academic abilities of the class.
I agree with Step 4, which states that problems should be broken into sub-steps and that part marks should be awarded for these sub-steps. One thing that is challenging about designing problems with sub-steps is that subsequent steps often depend on previous steps. If certain steps are not completed, the problem cannot be completed. Therefore, questions should be designed so that students do not necessarily have to complete the steps in order. (Jason)
Hi Jason, You explain this one point well, but there were so many points made in the video. What did you disagree with for http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrxrGOLxMPQ
I agree with the point about giving students more than enough space to answer their questions. I have noticed that a lot of teachers do not give their students enough space, which it difficult for a lot of students, especially those that don’t have small, neat writing. As long as your expectations for each question are clear, having extra space should not be confusing for students. I also agree that trick questions should only be used as bonus questions. However, I do not think that all questions should be exactly the same as what you have taught. Students should be able to apply their knowledge to solve new and different questions, especially once they reach secondary school. I believe it is so important for students to be able to do more than just regurgitate what you have taught, but also be able to apply it to new, real world situations. (Caroline)
Hi Caroline, I was wondering what you think the qualities and purpose of a good bonus question is? I wonder if there is any value to a bonus question whatsoever in terms of teaching and learning - I'm sure sure. What do you think?
Regrading "trick" question, your point has an odd logic. A good teacher should have a clear set of learning goals when he/she teachers and clearly communicate those goals to the students. So changing those specific goals, especially in a test situation, seems unreasonable and unfair. I don't think students can be expected to read the teacher's mind about what they "should" be able to do. Usually, when teacher do this, most students can't do the question. Also, there is a serious amount of research to suggest that humans do no transfer knowledge well. Regurgitation is not a typical learning goal in math - application is the minimum, especially in grades 7 to 12. Can you give me a specific example of a concept you would teach and the kind of "trick" question you think it would be fair to ask?
I wrote that trick questions would NOT be fair to ask unless they are asked as bonus questions. However, a good bonus question is not a trick question. All questions, including bonus questions should have clear expectations that are communicated to students.
A good bonus question would allow students to demonstrate their understanding of a concept by applying it to something new that was not discussed in class. This shows that the student has exceptional understanding of the subject matter. Students that are able to effectively answer these questions exceed the curriculum expectations and are thus given bonus marks to reflect this. I think that Bonus questions are useful to student learning as they encourage students to think beyond the scope of the course and apply what they have learned in a manner that exceeds curriculum expectations. It provides a means by which assessments are differentiated to suit the needs of varying students and push those that are at the top of the class to further their learning without penalizing those that are not at the same level. .
Well the research or evidence suggests that even professors are unable to transfer in the simplest of situations, so perhaps you are setting the bar way too high. Whether you accept it or not, far transfer, the kind that you are talking about, is rare. Now if you gave a Dan Meyer's type question - that would be more reasonable for all students - see how they think. For example, right now, I am trying to push you to listening to and perhaps finding evidence to support your claims - it is proving to be quite a challenge. I know you understand the notion of evidence and would probably support its use in medicine - But for some reason, you are unable to transfer the idea that your practice as a teacher needs to be guided bu evidence/research too. But you make really strong claims without any evidence whatsoever. So transfer is really hard - look it up - and probably should NOT be used as an assessment criteria even if you do use the political buzzword "differentiated" to support your argument (smile).
This was a good, informative video. I strongly agree that teachers need to make revisions in their tests from year to year. I can relate to this because I’ve personally asked students in upper years for their previous tests. I’ve often found that teachers did not change the majority of the questions they asked. I agree that it is important to give students enough space to show their work because we want to encourage them to show their work. However, I think a teacher needs to be aware of how much extra space to give. If students have a whole page to do a five line problem, having all that extra space might get them thinking that they might be wrong, and there should be more to the answer. I also think that it is important to break up questions into steps and determine how you break up the marks. If a question is not broken up into parts, it could be very overwhelming and start to cause confusion. Having different sections will provide structure. I agree that it is also important to teach the students that it isn’t all about getting the right answer. With this known, I feel that it will take a lot of pressure of students, and they will be focused on the question as a whole, not just the answer. I find the fifth point interesting. I agree that it is important to make sure you ask questions that match what you have taught. However, how will the students develop problem solving skills if every question you ask is something that they have seen before? With accommodations, would you make a slightly more challenging test for students who are gifted? I personally like marking one question at a time in tests. This allows me to focus on a single question at a time and ensure that I am marking consistently. It also allows each test to be anonymous.
Hi Lauren, Thanks for you detailed comments. I have a few questions. How would you determine how much space is needed for a question and why are teacher so bad at doing this (in my person experience anyway).
Regarding asking questions that match what you are taught, you asked about problem solving skills. I didn't mean ask the exact same questions, but questions with a similar format. Asking a totally new question in a test is not reasonable in terms of teaching and unfair. I am sure gifted student would really appreciate challenging questions BUT not necessarily in a test situation.
I agree that is might be fairer to mark one question at a time, but (a) how do you get past the boredom and (b) how do you get a sense of the individual student? I have tried this method and I find I have a good idea about the question performance but I forget individual students and do not have a sense of how well a single student did. In other words, I focus on questions not students and it didn't feel quite right. What say you?
I do have an idea of how I would determine how much space for a question but I am not sure if it would work because I don't have the a lot of experience. We want to be evaluating students with questions that have a similar format to something they have seen before. If I teach and show the steps on how to solve different problems in class, I will leave enough room based on how much room was needed to do the questions in the lesson. However, I can already see how this could cause issues such as how big a student writes. I encountered this problem on placement when I made a frayer model graphic organizer for a science lesson. I noticed that there was not enough room for the students who write larger.
I think teachers are so bad at this because we might only leave enough space in consideration to what we would need personally. If you have a class of 31 students, it will be hard to create the "right" amount of space for each individuals need.
You bring up something that I've never really thought of. Though first off, I feel that marking in general is something that will become boring whether it's one question at a time or one entire paper at a time. Though I really like your second point. Thinking about this, a reason we evaluate is to assess the student. There is no way I can assess the student properly if I am just going question by question. Though, it is easier for me this way, I now realize that I am no longer focusing on the individual but focused on making my life easier as a marker.
Marking is so much better when you connect the work with a student you know - at least for me. I was assessing the students, not just producing grades.
I agree that you need to take the time when making an assessment. You can’t expect students to give high quality answers to a low quality assessment – a rushed or messy assessment. I agree that giving students enough space to answer is very important, and also not constricting the type of answers they can give - allowing them to answer in different ways allows for greater connections and deeper thought (I just read a book on this in another class).
I strongly agree that you should let your students know what will be on the assignment/test. I HATE trick questions. You want them to succeed, why mess with them? Unfortunately you really see this a lot in University courses. If you don’t teach it, you can’t test it.
I do agree that questions should be broken into steps, this will help make the question clear, but too many steps is overwhelming. Having a question with steps a through z is insane. More steps allows for part marks which I am a HUGE fan of (probably how I survived university!). In my opinion you owe it to the student to search for part marks, any sign of them understanding the concept. When you break it into steps and search for part marks you can get a clearer picture on what they know and what steps they are confused about.
Honestly I’m not a big fan of bonus questions. Students can get distracted and zone in on this question and overlook the actual content.
When I was on placement in 2nd year my Associate Teacher suggested marking each test one page at a time – mark all the page ones, then twos, etc. This way you can get into a routine – what to look for and what the common mistakes were. I used this when I was a Teacher’s Assistant and it served me well and saved my sanity! (Denise Rowsell)
Hi Denise, Nice entry - well done. Regrading part marks - I genuinely wonder if we have to be careful about what we give part marks for. Sometimes students understand a "procedure" in math but really do not understand the concept. They can get a pretty good grade on a question, but my feeling is they really did not understand what was going on? How would you address that?
I know you feel bonus questions can be distracting? I genuinely wonder if there is any value to a bonus question whatsoever in terms of teaching and learning - I'm sure sure. What do you think?
I agree that is might be fairer to mark one question at a time, but (a) how do you get past the boredom and (b) how do you get a sense of the individual student? I have tried this method and I find I have a good idea about the question performance but I forget individual students and do not have a sense of how well a single student did. In other words, I focus on questions not students and it didn't feel quite right. What say you?
This video brought up a lot of key points about assessment that teachers need to consider. I think it is so important to be very clear in your questions because students and teachers think differently so something that makes perfect sense to you may not be clear for the students.
I agree that when a teacher marks questions, they should be broken down into steps to allow for part marks. If a student accidentally wrote the wrong number at the beginning of the question but did everything else correctly, they should get part marks instead of a zero. Yes, students should check their work, but sometimes they don’t have time or they don’t catch that little mistake.
I strongly agree that all questions must match exactly what the teacher taught. There is no point in stressing the students out by testing them on things that weren’t taught. Also, I think trick questions should not be given on a test. It can be very frustrating for the students and can throw them off during a test.
I have previously heard that marking one question at a time is more efficient, opposed to marking the whole test, one by one. I think everyone has their own style and idea of the best marking method for them, and I guess I won’t know what works for me until I start marking.
Finally, I strongly agree that teachers should give general feedback; feedback is definitely important for the students’ success. I don’t think students need to know the numerical average because the students should focus on their own success, and not how the class did compared to themselves. However, this may be difficult to avoid because some students insist on knowing the class average after a test. Also, teachers should not tell the class the highest and lowest grade, it never feels good knowing you have the lowest grade out of all your classmates.
Hi Joe Anne, Nice bit of work here. I was wondering 2 things. What didn't you agree with on the video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrxrGOLxMPQ
and will you let your student dictate weather you tell them the average. Why do you think they want to know the average? Do their reasons have anything to do with teaching and learning?
I have to say I was in agreement with all of these points. In my experience they all help students do better on tests and that is our goal as educators is it not, to help students achieve success? The only thing that scared me about this was the 3-7 hours to write a good assessment, if I was putting this much time into every single task I wanted to use for assessment right down to basic assignments I can't begin to imagine how far in advance I need to plan. I think breaking things into sub-steps for marking is really important and am glad that it is on this list. This gives students the opportunity to not be penalized heavily if they make a small error on one step. If you can see students understand the concept then one small error should not cost them their entire mark for one question. Marking the entire assessment and not just parts as well as giving students full answers to see where they went wrong are all steps a teacher should be taking to ensure that their students can and will improve. There was nothing in this video I didn't agree with or already intend to do. (Alisa Magarelli)
Hi Alisa, I found your comment on assessment interesting. The first thing you start with when you plan a lesson is the learning goals - what do you want students to learn and be able to do. So you need to know the kind of questions you would ask students in a test before you begin planning your unit. As for the 3-7 hours - you will see (those math equations are so much fun to type in) and if you don;t create a marking sheet, it takes so much longer to grade and you are never sure if you are consistent.
Regrading part marks - I genuinely wonder if we have to be careful about what we give part marks for. Sometimes students understand a "procedure" in math but really do not understand the concept. They can get a pretty good grade on a question, but my feeling is they really did not understand what was going on? How would you address that?
Just for fun, go to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrxrGOLxMPQ and find somehting you "could"disagree with.
I haven't put much thought into creating tests so the first point about writing a good assessment was useful. None of the points were surprising but it's nice to have them all summarized together as a reference. Making two or more similar versions seems like the most time consuming part but I would assume it's easy enough to find 'pools' of questions for each section of a test. But then again making questions match EXACTLY what you taught may make things a bit harder. Providing a challenging bonus question on each test sounds like a great idea. Also, I find it useful to hear general class feedback so I'd probably do the same. I don't mind knowing what the average grade was but usually you can figure this out through the feedback. I would disagree with marking one whole test at a time. In my experience I mark more efficiently and more fairly if I only keep two questions (and all their possible solutions) in my mind at any time. This usually works out to me marking half a page at a time. (Lukas)
Hi Lucas, It's funny how assessment has not come on your radar when it should be one of the first things a teacher does - formative assessment or assessment for learning. How do you know if your teaching is effective if you don't regularly assess students in lesson (not tests).
Making 2-3 tests is a bit of a pain, but you can shuffle questions and change numbers - they don't have to be that different. Be very careful about pools of questions - a number of textbook questions are not that great and you must be sure about whether the questions matches what you taught. I found it best to create my own questions albeit time consuming.
I was wondering what you think the qualities and purpose of a good bonus question is? I wonder if there is any value to a bonus question whatsoever in terms of teaching and learning - I'm sure sure. What do you think?
I agree that is might be fairer to mark one question at a time, but (a) how do you get past the boredom and (b) how do you get a sense of the individual student? I have tried this method and I find I have a good idea about the question performance but I forget individual students and do not have a sense of how well a single student did. In other words, I focus on questions not students and it didn't feel quite right. What say you?
I liked the idea of assessing students exactly on what was taught. I’ve never been a fan of trick questions and don’t see why some teachers include them besides for bonus marks. In grade 12 I experienced a teacher whose philosophy was that all questions on tests should be ones students haven’t seen before, and the entire Application and TIPS part would be “thinking outside the box problems”. I never liked this, because to me a teacher’s job is to assess how well the students understand a set number of concepts. There’s no need to ask extremely hard problems that are slightly related to the concepts; just ask direct questions to see if they get what you taught them. I also liked the point about giving general feedback instead of announcing averages. I was probably one of the few kids who didn’t like this even though I was almost always above it. It just seemed like unneeded anxiety when the teacher would announce it before even seeing my individual test mark, and I’m sure others in my class felt the same. I agree that it shouldn’t be brought up, but instead general feedback should be used to avoid this. The one thing that I didn’t like was the idea of 3-7 hours of prep to make an assessment (but I don’t know who would like that haha). I understand the need for this though as there is so many things to take into consideration, as mentioned in the video. Assessment is a major part of the teaching profession and performing properly is essential to student success. Because of this, the preparation is extremely important as it ensures proper assessment is being delivered. I think the student will also be able to tell the difference; at least I always could. A well thought out and effective test or assignment always fit so much more smoothly into the unit; whereas a handout pulled from the internet lacks importance and stands out among the others. All in all I agreed with all the points brought up. Most seem like criteria to keep in mind while teaching. Even the optional point of marking either one question at a time, or whole test brings up a good point; we need to develop our own methods as teachers that work well for us. Although the needs of the students are our primary focus, we need to consider our own sanity and be sure to develop methods of assessment that don't drive us crazy.
I agree that is might be fairer to mark one question at a time, but (a) how do you get past the boredom and (b) how do you get a sense of the individual student? I have tried this method and I find I have a good idea about the question performance but I forget individual students and do not have a sense of how well a single student did. In other words, I focus on questions not students and it didn't feel quite right. What say you?
Do you think there is any way around the 3-7 hours involved in assessment? I have not been able to do this - it always take longer than I think.
Although I didn’t actually comment on whether I prefer marking one question at a time or entire tests, I agree with you. When marking entire tests as a whole you get a much better idea of the student’s overall understanding of the subject. You can provide better feedback for them and establish things you may want to discuss with the student to help them succeed next time. When marking question by question these things often aren’t thought of. Over my placement I had the opportunity to mark a science unit test that I had written for my class. I found that marking multiple choice questions and classifying terms in a chart were easy to do one student at a time, but for the problems were the student needed to have deeper written responses I preferred to mark as a whole. This allowed me to use the effectiveness of marking one question at a time while not compromising my ability to assess each student individually and provide relevant feedback for them.
This is the only way I can think of answering your second question as well. By splitting up the marking methods through the test I found it didn’t seem as long of a process to mark (it still took a few hours though). It seems like no matter how detailed I made my solutions it’s impossible to predict the responses the students will give. Often times they’re not wrong either so you need to rethink how you will mark them while staying fair to the rest of the class.
I agree with most of the points in this video. In particular I agree that assignments should take a long time to make or else you're probably doing something wrong. I can remember being very annoyed with some of my math teachers in the past who had obviously not put much thought into their assignments or test questions- there were numerous errors and many of the questions were poorly worded and unclear. I think the marking whole test vs. one question at a time debate is an interesting one. I think it depends on the type of questions in the assessment. For communication questions I think it's important to mark one question at a time since this can be a bit more subjective and it's important to be consistent in assigning marks. For calculations and knowledge questions I think these could all be marked at once for each student to save time. I think your point about making sure the questions match exactly what you taught is interesting. I agree that you shouldn't just expect students to know things, but I also think that test questions shouldn't just be examples from the notes or the homework with the numbers changed. Problem solving is a very important skill in mathematics and I think it's extremely important that students be able to apply what they know to a situation or problem they haven't seen before. I know you mentioned that the research shows students have a very hard time with this- my personal belief is that this is likely because these sorts of questions aren't asked often enough. Of course, I would never make a whole test or assignment out of just these types of questions; I think a balance of easy and difficult questions is important.
Hi Wareen, I agree that is might be fairer to mark one question at a time, but (a) how do you get past the boredom and (b) how do you get a sense of the individual student? I have tried this method and I find I have a good idea about the question performance but I forget individual students and do not have a sense of how well a single student did. In other words, I focus on questions not students and it didn't feel quite right. What say you?
Regrading "trick" question, your point has an odd logic. A good teacher should have a clear set of learning goals when he/she teachers and clearly communicate those goals to the students. So changing those specific goals, especially in a test situation, seems unreasonable and unfair. I don't think students can be expected to read the teacher's mind about what they "should" be able to do. Usually, when teacher do this, most students can't do the question. Also, there is a serious amount of research to suggest that humans do no transfer knowledge well. Regurgitation is not a typical learning goal in math - application is the minimum, especially in grades 7 to 12. Can you give me a specific example of a concept you would teach and the kind of "trick" question you think it would be fair to ask?
As for the research on transfer, much of the thinking is on how the brain works and organizes information. Some test have been conducted with graduate students, who one would argue have considerable experience problem solving, but cannot transfer in seemingly obvious situations. Are you prepared to let your teaching be guided by the hunch you have that "Regrading "trick" question, your point has an odd logic. A good teacher should have a clear set of learning goals when he/she teachers and clearly communicate those goals to the students. So changing those specific goals, especially in a test situation, seems unreasonable and unfair. I don't think students can be expected to read the teacher's mind about what they "should" be able to do. Usually, when teacher do this, most students can't do the question. Also, there is a serious amount of research to suggest that humans do no transfer knowledge well. Regurgitation is not a typical learning goal in math - application is the minimum, especially in grades 7 to 12. Can you give me a specific example of a concept you would teach and the kind of "trick" question you think it would be fair to ask?". Is that enough reasoning and evidence for any professional teacher?
You've probably done a lot more marking than I have, so perhaps I don't really appreciate how boring it can get. During my first placement I tried a bit of each style of marking and I can see why you prefer marking one student entirely before moving on to the next- you do get a much better sense of how each student did.
As for the part on trick questions, I think I may have misunderstood the point you were trying to make in the video. I'm not really advocating for trick questions, but for application problems that are not absolutely identical to ones seen before. For example, let's take a grade 8 lesson on area and perimeter. If I did a problem in class about finding the number of sections (of given length) needed to make a fence around a yard (of given shape and dimensions) I think it would be fair to ask a test question asking how many bricks (of given length) are required to make a border around a certain garden. The question is different than something seen before but I think it still falls under the same learning goal (recognize real-life situations that require area or perimeter measurements).
This is a good video. It provided ten good key points to consider when generating a good math assessment test. I strongly agree that it takes lots of time to create a good math assessment. The process involves keying in some complex math equations, proper formatting, putting the test questions in chronological order which the materials have presented in class and let’s not forget the graphical diagram some question might require. And it takes even more time for teachers to make different versions of the test to ensure students do not have a copy from previous years. I do not agree in providing students more than enough space to show their work. I agree to provide adequate space for students to do and show their work but do not give them too many spaces that it will make the test seem like a booklet. Now, that will freak the students out and discourage them before they even start to write the test. My reasoning for spacing is to provide one line per one step and if they need more space they could always ask for more blank paper which I will be happy to provide. (Sylvia)
Hi Sylvia, How do you guess at what "every" student will require to show their work in a problem. Some need more and some need less, so giving a little more space is maybe a good option, especially when you explain to the class why you are doing this. I know you had one memorable experience BUT don't let that dictate your practice for the rest of your life. You need to critically evaluate how you might address this situation. How could I have re-word this suggestion to make it more palatable for you?
I would encourage you to comment on more points in the future - just so I understand your thinking.
1) I don't really think a test should ever take 7 hours to design - I do understand making multiple versions and formatting, but if you're giving students questions they're familiar with, then you too will be familiar with it. I do support multiple versions for sure. Seen my fair share of cheat-sheets.
2) Agreed completely with a lot of space. As a student who used to use that as an excuse ("Why give us no space? Clearly it shouldn't take much space to write the solution"), giving ample spaces takes the short-answer mentality out of their head.
3) Bonus questions should have very small overall weight (I'd said between 1-5% max). I've seen tests out of 30 where the bonus will be out of 5 - that's about 16-17% extra, and students will get tunnel-vision on the question. Since most bonus questions are trick questions that require a lot more thinking, this is time wasted that could have been used on the actual test.
4) When I marked, I used to mark a page at a time. I found this made a nice middle between consistency (since the page ranged around 7-12 questions, which wasn't hard to remember) and speed.
Hi K.V. Good luck with creating tests in a shorter time - I wish you well (smile).
I was wondering what you think the qualities and purpose of a good bonus question is? I wonder if there is any value to a bonus question whatsoever in terms of teaching and learning - I'm sure sure. What do you think?
I agree that is might be fairer to mark one question at a time, but (a) how do you get past the boredom and (b) how do you get a sense of the individual student? I have tried this method and I find I have a good idea about the question performance but I forget individual students and do not have a sense of how well a single student did. In other words, I focus on questions not students and it didn't feel quite right. What say you?
I guess I'll have to wait and see about writing tests - so I'll get back to you in a few years on that one. :P
Although I do feel bonus questions do have great potential on testing critical thinking (it shouldn't be for the points, although it's the incentive to get students to attempt them), I feel that students lose focus when they see a high-weighted bonus question. This too hold if they can't answer any of the previous questions. If they can't answer the questions before the bonus, how are they supposed to even try to tackle the bonus, which will have fundamentals taken from the previous questions? If you make it smaller, they'll do the rest of the test first, which will build them to the bonus. That's just my thought at least.
To me mentally, doing a page at time fights the boredom - I can see that I'm actually progressing through all the booklets of test... Maybe it's just how I view it. Although I do agree with you on the individual student. Doing the page at a time can sometimes make you lose focus on what test you're marking. I don't have a good response for this, so I guess I'll just have to see through my own experiences how that pans out. But I'll definitely look into it.
-I agree that different students may interpret your explanations differently, and that what you find to be clear and easy to understand may not be reciprocated by the student WHY? As we've been told many times in various classes this year, the default learning style teachers most often cater to is their own (perhaps this is why so many linguistic learners are successful in our educational system) -I agree that when assessing multi-step questions you should carefully determine the number of steps you are marking. I agree with the idea that each step should be worth one mark, and I wouldn't bother giving 1/2 or 1/4 marks. WHY? My grade 11 chemistry teacher always made multi-page tests out of 7-10 marks, and awarded 1/4 marks - as a student, I hated the idea that a single mistake could cost me an entire grade level. -I agree that there is little to be gained by "tricking students" with certain questions WHY? Students who have been exposed to your tests will be looking for tricks in all of the questions, and will waste time overthinking problems. Students also probably won't like you very much. - I agree that IEP students should be accommodated. WHY? IEP students could finish at the same time or earlier than other students, but the point is to give them more OPTIONS (more time, more space, etc)
What I disagree with:
-Although I do agree to an extent that you should give students ample space for writing down answers, I also could see how too much space could add stress for students. I disagree with, for example, leaving a whole page for a 4-step answer. WHY? Students may misinterpret the extra space as signifying that the question requires more work than it actually does. Granted, this problem could be easily solved by showing how many marks each question is out of (though you might expect this to be a given, I've taken many tests without an indication of mark value for questions) -I would have to take a look at both sides of the research on this (is your side the only side research supports?), but I would argue that asking questions on EXACTLY what you've taught (all copies of what you did in class) is not as effective as coming up with new questions. WHY? Students who can memorize will simply reproduce your notes on the test. How will students be able to apply their knowledge if there's no pressure to apply it to new situations?
What I'm not sure of:
-I'll take your word that it takes that long to write an assessment, but I haven't wrote one before -I'm not sure if I would simply use my own answer sheet alone. I may take a look at what students answered for certain questions and also consider those answers when marking other tests. -I could go either way with providing a numerical average vs. general feedback. I don't see a big difference in telling students that "the tests were poorly done" vs "the average was 55%".
Jacob, Nice effort, coverage and detail on this blog entry - just what I am looking for - thank you.
Regarding space, wow do you guess at what "every" student will require to show their work in a problem. Some need more and some need less, so giving a little more space is maybe a good option, especially when you explain to the class why you are doing this. I know you had one memorable experience BUT don't let that dictate your practice for the rest of your life. You need to critically evaluate how you might address this situation. How could I have re-word this suggestion to make it more palatable for you?
egrading "trick" question, your point has an odd logic. A good teacher should have a clear set of learning goals when he/she teachers and clearly communicate those goals to the students. So changing those specific goals, especially in a test situation, seems unreasonable and unfair. I don't think students can be expected to read the teacher's mind about what they "should" be able to do. Usually, when teacher do this, most students can't do the question. Also, there is a serious amount of research to suggest that humans do no transfer knowledge well. Regurgitation is not a typical learning goal in math - application is the minimum, especially in grades 7 to 12. Can you give me a specific example of a concept you would teach and the kind of "trick" question you think it would be fair to ask?
Be careful about using student answers to determine your assessment guide. I did this at one time and it makes some sense BUT it encourages lazy teaching to a certain extent. If you include a question on a test, you should to it for a clear reason and it should match clear learning goals. If you need student answers to clarify those goals, then you really haven't done your preparation.
Regrading feedback - why would you say the tests were poorly done - who is that feedback for. It is VERY rare for a test to be poorly done by everyone and if you have that situation, you should start out by saying "I didn't teach these concepts very well or my test was poorly designed".
Regrading "the average" - you, as the professional teacher, need to think about the teaching and learning value of giving averages. What specific kids are asking for the average and why? Kids don't always know what is best for the whole class. In my mind, averages just feed the power of grades and I like to focus on learning. BTW - In my 20 odd years of teaching (even thought 20 is not an odd number) I don't recall students ever wanting the average?
To correct what I wrote previously, I would just like to make the point that communication is key - I think that (like you said) if you explain to the class why you are giving more space, it's perfectly fine.
For my point on trick questions, I'm not seeing where we disagree; I agreed with you in my post - I think that it's a waste of time to give students "trick questions". You say that "[r]egurgitation is not a typical learning goal in math - application is the minimum", and this is the point I'm trying to make when I say that "I would argue that asking questions on EXACTLY what you've taught (all copies of what you did in class) is not as effective as coming up with new questions". To correct myself again, I should have defined what I mean by new questions: I would test them on the exact same concepts covered in class, but in the form of a new question. For example, in my science class I made a test question about different liquid slides (water slides, oil slides, etc), in which I wanted students to order the slides from fastest to slowest (this is a somewhat goofy question, but it brings the concept of viscosity to a real-life application).
Good point about using student answers for making assessment guides. I see where my thought process there could lead to laziness.
About a situation where tests were poorly done - this was just a random example with the 55%. My point was that there does not seem to be a difference in telling the class a numerical average or giving them general feedback. In both cases, they have an idea of how the class performed (a numerical average is just more specific), and in both cases it would be best to follow with something like you just mentioned: "I didn't teach these concepts very well" / "My test was poorly designed".
Interesting point about averages, but I actually was just using the point you made in the video to say that "I could go either way with providing a numerical average vs. general feedback". I don't actually see any good reason in telling the students the numerical class average personally; my point about class averages was just addressing your point in the video (@ 4:06).
Yes - After re-thinking this, I agree with you that presenting averages and giving general feedback are similar. Specific feedback to students is best, unless there is a clear patterns of wrong answers - and you would like to re-teach/review that part
Although I do agree that it takes a long time to write a good assessment, I believe that 7 hours is a bit of a stretch. I think that a great assessment can be written in less time, especially once you have gotten to know your students. I could not agree more with the third point that you made (giving the students ample space for answers). When tutoring students, I always tell them to use tons of space...especially for word problems, or anything that a visual will help them with. Then when going over their tests with them, I realize that the teacher has given them little to no room to work with. I totally agree that students should be given ample space to do their math work so that they can stay organized and neat (this makes it easier for teachers to mark too). I like the sixth point made, however I thought it a bit contradictory to what were learning in this program. I don't think that a math test should ever trick students. However, were learning that an A requires the student to go above and beyond what is learned in class. Wouldn't a trick question constitute that? Finally, I really agree with the last point you made (about giving general feedback rather than the average). Students (especially in a subject that causes so much anxiety for so many) should not ever be discouraged. You made a great point when you said that half the class will be if you give them an average. I think that giving general feedback is definitely the better way to go about it.
Stephanie, Time will tell when you start creating your own assessments and tests - Let me know how long it takes. I was curious why knowing the students would make it any easier to write an assessment. I thought assessment is geared to learning goals not who you students are, or am I missing something here?
Regrading "trick" question, your point has an odd logic. A good teacher should have a clear set of learning goals when he/she teachers and clearly communicate those goals to the students. So changing those specific goals, especially in a test situation, seems unreasonable and unfair. I don't think students can be expected to read the teacher's mind about what they "should" be able to do. Usually, when teacher do this, most students can't do the question. Also, there is a serious amount of research to suggest that humans do no transfer knowledge well. Regurgitation is not a typical learning goal in math - application is the minimum, especially in grades 7 to 12. Can you give me a specific example of a concept you would teach and the kind of "trick" question you think it would be fair to ask?
An "A" might mean going beyond what is being taught in class, but I am not sure a test situation is the best way to determine that. I see your point, though, and the levelled grading system is a bit contradictory to effective teaching. I never though about it to be honest - good point. I would advise using other forms of assessment to determine As.
After accessing your assessments suggestions I find it excessive to assess them all in succession with any success. Succinctly, just kidding no more consonance, while I obviously appreciate the advice learned from years of experience I struggle to accept how some of the suggestions appear to be based in common sense yet many teachers successfully tormented me with things like trick questions.
I am disappointed by the mention of research against trick questions. With research available I am distressed that it was not distributed to my second year quantum professor, or my third year classical mechanics professor, and that it still had not reached his desk in time for fourth year nuclear, molecular physics. I know for sure that my tests will not be the place that I introduce questions that combine the facts from unit 3 and unit 10 with a small fact that you should have learned 2 years ago. That experience made it clear to me that the way the material is presented make a huge impression on the way that knowledge is applied. Without prior experience combining skills from different units it is difficult to execute during a test for you first attempt.
General feedback has a severe flaw. I recall teachers that would give assignments or tests back at the end of a class to keep students focused on that particular class, but he or she would begin the class with general feedback. Suggesting common mistakes that most students have to work on is really distracting and discouraging. Listening to a teacher mention “some people need to remember to carry their ‘ones’” instantly sent my mind to an “oh crap” did I forget something that simple. In short I find that general feedback is only helpful when the entire class has a tendency that requires correction.
Now, blogs are supposed to be conversational right? I notice a lot of posts that disagree with the ‘extra space’ suggestion. Most of the complaints come from a belief that extra space could lead a student to over think, or over expand a problem to fit the space. But it seems to me that we are overlooking the advice that directly precedes it. It is very challenging to anticipate how students will think differently than us. The variables here range from printing size, mistakes made, whether they have a good eraser, or do they cross it out and try again beside it, how many intermediate steps a student makes, and even whether they have to do margin notes for calculations. The extra space is freedom and accommodation for the student to answer without risk of claustrophobia. Additionally, at some point you can decide it is not about the student and acknowledge that it is a lot less frustrating to mark a test with half a blank page than it is to decipher the font size six hieroglyphs that a student has tried to cram into the exam space because erasing their first three attempts left most of the work space as an unusable black smudge.
Hi Andrew, Very interesting and challenging point you bring up. First, and foremost, most teachers do not care what the research says unless it supports what they want to do. That is why I am trying to push evidence-based teaching. How can we call ourselves professional, then simply do what our gut or previous experience tells us. Many teachers do wing it, however, hence your negative experiences in the past.
As for general feedback, I would tend to agree with you - specific feedback to students is what is important. So good of you to notice that.
I love your response to "extra space" - brilliant. Thank you for that level of detail and thought.
My challenging question for you - How do you plan to guard against simply following your intuitions and instincts and ignoring the research available on teaching and learning?
A Great summary of how we should assess students learning through a test. • I totally agree with you that writing a good test takes a lot of time and effort. In addition, Weighting each question based on the level of importance is a very hard task to do. • I also think we should consider how long a test will take students to finish. We do not want students to be under time pressure. • I think it would be faster to mark a page at a time. • I will make sure to have an analysis of test results in order to see where most of the students have problem. I will work on those problems in the classroom and try different teaching strategies. (Shima)
Shima, In the future, I would suggest you take one or two points and look at them in more detail so I can see your level of processing. Most of the points here are simple agreement with what I said and I need to understand your reasoning.
I agree that is might be faster to mark one question at a time, but (a) how do you get past the boredom and (b) how do you get a sense of the individual student? Also, shouldn't you be looking at teaching and learning, not just saving yourself time. I have tried this method and I find I have a good idea about the question performance but I forget individual students and do not have a sense of how well a single student did. In other words, I focus on questions not students and it didn't feel quite right. What say you?
Why would you analyze the test results to see where most students have problems? How would you use that information?
I do not intend to do one question at a time, but one page at a time to alleviate the boredom and at the same time keeping a good pace to mark the test. I believe that it is the responsibility of the teacher to acknowledge and get to know their students throughout the classroom sessions. If a teacher has not identified and understood their students’ capabilities and their challenges, then hundreds of tests will not fill that void. For example a student who understands a lesson, may answer a test question wrong, therefore based on the test assessment I should consider that student as lacking knowledge of that lesson. I have to consider many angles as a teacher when it comes to assessing students marks and examination is only part of the whole picture. Therefore, I can safely achieve an assessment of my students’ capabilities in a test by marking the tests one page at a time.
Analyzing the test results will allow me to figure out if I should allocate class time to review a certain lesson or if I should approach particular student individually to work on their challenges. There is no point in reviewing a whole lesson if only two students have challenges with it. I would achieve much better results by spending one on one time with each student.
*Might want to grab a cup of tea or coffee before you start reading...it's a long one!*
I'm sure you can tell how great the video was with the amount of words you're about to read...really got me worked up!
I definitely agree that creating a good assessment is a very time consuming task but it’s something that has to be done. A test/assignment should have well planned out questions that relate to the material taught in class, and the process through which students learned it. It all adds up to more work if you have students with IEPs in your class, as you need to create a different set of test for them. I know it may seem unrealistic but each test should be unique, one of a kind…no repeats! I'm totally against teachers who pull up a test or even a quiz from elsewhere and hand it out in class. I always knew when my teachers made their own tests and when they didn’t.
I think it's critical to create an answer sheet before you give out the test. This gives the teacher an idea of how well the test is planned out and whether changes are required. Also, the teacher can write how much each question is worth on the test so the students get an idea of how much time to spend on the question and how much work they need to show. It always helped me as a student; I would hate for my students to spend 10-15 minutes on a question worth 10% and then rush through the other 90% of the test in half hour.
I also agree that the questions should be very clear; communication is definitely the key in any form of teaching. You cannot assume students will understand what you’re asking for, especially in word problems! I hated the choice of words for some word problems in high school. Depending on where you placed the emphasis, or how you read it, the question changed into a completely new problem! I always left those to struggle with until the end and hoped the entire class would complain about it so the teacher could disregard the question.
I don't think students should be given MORE space than needed on the test because it scares the students. Students want to fill up all the space; if they leave white space it mostly always means they are missing something. From experience, I've seen so many students correctly answer a question in half the space provided and then they start to doubt themselves and their answer because they left empty space. They would overthink and totally get off track with the solution just because they wanted to fill up space. I think the amount of space given should be just enough for a full step by step solution; the answer key should determine the amount of space given. If a student needs extra space, I'd be more than willing to provide them with an extra piece of paper.
I couldn't agree more with dividing a question into steps. Obviously too many steps is overwhelming! I wouldn't have parts a to k for question 1 on a test. Having parts allows the students to work through questions worth 1-3 marks each without freaking out about having a question worth 15 marks on a test. This process allows part marks to be given, something I'm a HUGE fan of. As teachers, we're not out there to get the students or to fail them…we need to work with them step by step so they understand and appreciate what they are learning. Math isn't about getting the correct final answer; it's about understanding the concepts and procedures to find the answer. A student shouldn’t be penalized for making a small mistake if they followed the steps correctly. Everyone makes mistakes, looking over the test doesn't guarantee that they will pick up their mistake. It always happened to me in school, I would make small mistakes on the test, and it’s the pressure I think that we're in during the test environment…the brain just fails to recognize any mistakes because it’s fresh. Even if you know you did something wrong, you can’t always find your mistake. Everyone needs time away from the work in order to come back and see what they did wrong.
Hi Nabgha, First, thank you for taking so much time to articulate your thoughts - you definitely exceeded my expectations and I really appreciate your setting the bar high.
Regarding space, wow do you guess at what "every" student will require to show their work in a problem. Some need more and some need less, so giving a little more space is maybe a good option, especially when you explain to the class why you are doing this. I know you had one memorable experience BUT don't let that dictate your practice for the rest of your life. You need to critically evaluate how you might address this situation. How could I have re-word this suggestion to make it more palatable for you?
I would definitely provide enough space for the students, and they will know this from my lessons in class, and I will also mention that to them. I believe in seeing kids an example of how I expect each type of question to be answered thus I will be modeling for them throughout my lessons. If there's one thing I've learned over the past few months, it is to not let your experiences be the basis of how you're going to teach in the future...every student is unique as is every situation. :)
Giving a trick question on the assignment is great, however in a test situation you'll be setting your students towards failure and it discourages them. Students are already pressured by the test itself, giving them a surprise question will stress them out more and their brain will shut down. You could throw in a trick question at the end of the test as a bonus for those students that complete the test early. It also helps those students who totally didn't understand a question (and skipped it) to try another question and have a chance to make up for those lost marks. I wouldn't give a bonus question in every test; it would be randomly done a few times. Obviously the trick/bonus question would only be worth 1-5% maximum so it’s fair. Giving a trick question also allows the teacher to get to know if there are some students who are able to apply what they've learned in class to questions they haven't yet seen.
I don't think it's a good idea to provide the students with an answer sheet after the test. The students need a break after the test, they need time to relax and not think about the test they've written. Giving that answer sheet might be helpful to some students, but from my experience, if a student realizes that they didn't do so well after looking at the answer sheet then their entire day gets ruined and they don't focus as much in other classes. I would also tell my students not to discuss their answers after the test (which I know they will) because I find it discourages some students. I hated the crowd who would stand just outside the classroom door and ask everyone what their answers were to each of the questions on the test (or exam) and then compare their answers with the smarter students’ answers. Students always tend to compare their answers with the "smart" students in their class, however they fail to realize that even those smart students can make mistakes and they might not always have the right answer.
I disagree with marking the tests one at a time. I think it's a really bad idea because then you know whose test it is and also, the marking isn't consistent with everyone else’s. I also disagree with marking one question at a time, that's just gets really boring! I would work my way through the tests 1 page at a time. I've always marked this way, I think it's great to go through page by page as you can mark 3-4 questions at a time and be consistent with the marking throughout the class. It also saves so much time, and you really start to focus on the questions you are marking and forget whose test is in your hand. Before I started to mark though, I would create a separate second pile of tests for my students with IEPs or those whom I think are not identified yet have special needs. Going through the second pile would require some extra time and more focus than just blindly following the answer key…for the second pile I might mark one test at a time.
Lastly, I really don’t think you can stay away from giving out a numerical average. Students are always eager to know the average because they want to compare themselves to the class. Yes, it has both good and bad but it helps some students. From experience, almost all the students I’ve tutored always said they made sure their mark was above class average, even if it meant just 1% higher. If they had a lower mark, it motivated them to do better. I would definitely always give my class formative feedback for any kind of assessment done, especially if I wasn’t done marking the tests. However, I wouldn’t keep the numerical averages hidden from the students...maybe I would give them a range (for example: class average is somewhere between 62-68%). I would however, refrain from telling the class the highest and lowest marks; I’m against publically sharing the specific marks as it makes a lot of students feel uncomfortable.
(Nabgha)
*SORRY FOR THE LONG READ...IF YOU MADE IT ALL THE WAY THROUGH TO HERE!*
More questions I agree that is might be fairerto mark one question at a time, but (a) how do you get past the boredom and (b) how do you get a sense of the individual student? Also, shouldn't you be looking at teaching and learning, not just saving yourself time. I have tried this method and I find I have a good idea about the question performance but I forget individual students and do not have a sense of how well a single student did. In other words, I focus on questions not students and it didn't feel quite right. What say you?
Regarding "the average" - you, as the professional teacher, need to think about the teaching and learning value of giving averages. What specific kids are asking for the average and why? Kids don't always know what is best for the whole class. In my mind, averages just feed the power of grades and I like to focus on learning. BTW - In my 20 odd years of teaching (even thought 20 is not an odd number) I don't recall students ever wanting the average?
(a) I would never mark 1 question at a time for 20+ tests, I cannot find any way to get over the boredom. Marking 1 page at a time is pretty good. (b) For students that I feel need extra attention or require my time more to thoroughly look through their papers, I would set those aside and mark them separately.
I agree, a teacher should always have a sense of how well each student is doing in his/her class. After marking the tests 1 page at a time, I have in the past looked through each student's test entirely to see how each student did so I can get a sense of where they stand, how creative students are in answering the questions posed and where they made mistakes. I can then reflect, and give each student positive feedback and further encouragement.
As for "the average", I haven't quiet decided if I'm for it or against it. I've always had students ask me averages or if they were in the best 5 for the class, etc. I feel like it's a way some students get motivated while others get discouraged if they continue to get lower marks. As a student, In high school I've ALWAYS wanted to know the average and bugged my teachers until they told me something about where I stood in the class or what the average was. It was a motivational strategy, always wanted to be a high achiever, especially in math class. I think I probably would give out the average based on one standard deviation of the class mean for unit tests or assignments which are worth a big chunk of their marks.
I agree with most of the points presented in this video. In addition to point 1 though, I had received some tips from some of my university professors during my undergrad: first was that it should take you less than half of the time you give your students to write your own test, and second, you should aim for your students to have a solid B/B+ average.
I agree with the comments on trick questions too; it seems most people here believe that its ok to put trick questions on homework and assessments, but not on evaluations. In fact, I think trick questions or *challenge questions* is actually a good tool in assessing students' learning.
I also wanted to weigh in on the "all at once" vs. "one question at a time" debate, and I think that it depends on the subject you are teaching. Specifically, for math/science/tech., you should be able to mark everything at once, since the answer are relatively prescribed. On the other hand, if you are teaching a subject where some answers may be subjective to the evaluator (i.e. English, History), it might be better to mark the tests question-by-question to keep your marks consistent.
I am also a fan of the idea that you should give general feedback to the class (and personally, I like the idea of taking up the answers to questions that were poorly-done), instead of class averages.
Bryan, I would be wary of university teachers and their tips - I have seen some of the very worst examples of teaching in higher education.
I think that is might be fairer to mark one question at a time, but (a) how do you get past the boredom and (b) how do you get a sense of the individual student? Also, shouldn't you be looking at teaching and learning, not just saving yourself time. I have tried this method and I find I have a good idea about the question performance but I forget individual students and do not have a sense of how well a single student did. In other words, I focus on questions not students and it didn't feel quite right. What say you?
I am re-thinking my idea of even giving general feedback because really, the feedback that is important is the specific feedback to the student, at least with respect to learning.
What i really liked about this video, and what a lot of teachers tend to overlook is the clarity of their questions. This probably isn't intentional, because having a great knowledge in a certain area makes things seem obvious to you that might not be so obvious to others. There were times in high school where I wasn't sure of what teachers were asking on tests, but they weren't able to answer my question when asked because they felt that they would be assisting me too much. By being as clear and concise as possible, students will know exactly what they should do and what you're looking for. Also I think that the idea of teach what's already been taught, but I've had teachers who have given questions on area we haven't covered yet, and used this to determine how keen you were on reading the material ahead of time. This doesn't properly evaluate how well you know the material, but how much initiative that a student has, and even though that's a good life skill, it's not testable strength in this situation. One thing I do disagree on is marking the whole test vs. one question. From experience as well I agree with you when you say that it's tiring to look at the same thing over and over, but I feel that it gives you better consistency when marking. (Keith)
Keith, I think that is might be fairer to mark one question at a time, but (a) how do you get past the boredom and (b) how do you get a sense of the individual student? Also, shouldn't you be looking at teaching and learning, not just saving yourself time. I have tried this method and I find I have a good idea about the question performance but I forget individual students and do not have a sense of how well a single student did. In other words, I focus on questions not students and it didn't feel quite right. What say you?
I agree with the majority of what is said in the video. I do however disagree with the following. I feel that 7 hours is far too long a time to take to to write a math test. The process shouldn't be rushed, but 7 hours is excessive. I agree that writing 2 or more copies is necessary to prevent cheating, however the two tests should fundamentally be the same. I agree with giving plenty of space as I can't tell you how many times I have had to write on the back of the page to finish a question.
The main point that I disagree with is that you must have your questions exactly match what you taught. i think the basic concepts must be the same, but if you simply put the same questions that they have been doing for homework then you are rewarding memorization rather than understanding. By forcing students to take basic knowledge and adapt it to a unique task or application you are allowing the students to answer higher-order questions. While some will struggle with this, the majority will grow as learners as a result.
Hi Stefan, Whether you agree with 3-7 hours to create a test won't change the reality. I wasn't advising you that you "should" spend this amount of time, I was notifying that 3-7 hours is how long it takes, unless you photocopy someone else's test of course. Now this is for a first time, brand new test. It is obviously much faster the second time you teach the subject. Good luck, though, on creating test in a shorter time (smile).
Regarding "trick" question, your point has an odd logic. A good teacher should have a clear set of learning goals when he/she teachers and clearly communicate those goals to the students. So changing those specific goals, especially in a test situation, seems unreasonable and unfair. I don't think students can be expected to read the teacher's mind about what they "should" be able to do. Usually, when teacher do this, most students can't do the question. Also, there is a serious amount of research to suggest that humans do no transfer knowledge well. Regurgitation is not a typical learning goal in math - application is the minimum, especially in grades 7 to 12. Can you give me a specific example of a concept you would teach and the kind of "trick" question you think it would be fair to ask?
I am all for challenge question - for many of the reasons you have noted - I don't believe a test is the best format in which to present them.
I didn't really mean to say that we should be asking "trick" questions, but merely questions that differ from the ones they are shown in class or given for homework. For example, if they are shown examples of how to create an expression for a given sequence and then graph that sequence, it would not be unreasonable to ask them to create the expression from a given graph. They are just using skills they already know to solve a problem presented in a slightly different way. This asks students to think rather than just recall.
After watching this video I wish that the teachers assessing me would have considered some of these tips and techniques. One point I couldn't agree more with is that when assessing students with tests is not include trick questions or try and trump your students. When assessing your students you are testing their knowledge and understanding of the content you have taught them. You are not supposed to be assessing the students on what you think they should know. The purpose of these assessments is to gauge how much the the students have learned and retained in your class, not what you should have taught them (in case there wasn't enough time). With regards to marking the whole test or one question on the test, I dislike when teachers only mark one question on the test. Once again, the purpose of the assessment is to gauge the students knowledge and understanding of the content. If you are only answering one question and the student doesn't know that question but they know everything else, then they are getting heavily penalized for not understanding one thing. One point I would question is the time it takes to write a good assessment. But of course I haven't hit that stage yet so I have no proof to disprove this statement. Finally, I appreciate the comment about giving general feedback to the entire class. By doing this and telling the entire class what they can work on, you are not discouraging individual students, and you are giving constructive criticism to the entire class. (Kelly)
Kelly, I have one question - I have been reflecting a little more about giving general feedback to a class. Do you think there is any value in doing that? If so, what is the value? It has occurred to me that all that a student would be interested in is (a) their specific feedback and (b) how they did with respect to the class. The latter reason is probably not a good habit to encourage, at least with respect to promoting good learning. What do you think?
I think there is some value in it. By addressing the entire class, for the students who didn't do as well, you are implying that there are others who might have had the same problems that they did. Also, by reviewing the problems as a class, you can show the students where they went wrong instead of singling them out and taking them aside. Now, many students, including myself, want to know specific feedback but that can be written on their test or assignment by the teacher. By giving general feedback to the class, you are able to address the majority of the problems that occurred during the assessment.
Repost for Tiffany Lee I definitely agree with being clear with your questions since students can't read your mind and know what you're asking of them. It can really throw the students off (from personal experience) when the students don't understand what is being asked of them. Then it also causes problems with the teacher because you have to go and re-explain to all the students what you're trying to ask them to do. Or if say you get the work back and EVERYONE, didn't give you what you were asking for because the question wasn't clear, then you might have to take that question out and you then wouldn't be able to assess them on that specific question.
I agree with the importance of part marks. Part marks are very critical. I do believe in breaking up each question into steps and carefully determining the marks you want to give for each step, because it helps you mark and it also helps the students get part marks. Also having the steps laid out of how many marks given for each step can help you know how to mark the questions and what marks to give to the students.
From experience, I do like to mark one question better than marking the whole test. I tried also doing the mark whole test first, and that drove me cwazy! I found it more consistent and easier for me to mark one question for all the tests, then move onto the next one and so on.
I like your idea of giving general feedback rather than a numerical average. I never thought of that. The students don't really need to know whether or not they beat the class average or not. From experience as a student, it goes either way. You either feel happy that you beat the class average, but when you don't, it doesn't feel that great and you feel "stupid". I guess it does depend on the situation too. Definitely feel like we can have a debate about this during class.
Overall, I do agree with most of your tips. Thanks for the tips!
Tiffany, Regrading part marks - I genuinely wonder if we have to be careful about what we give part marks for. Sometimes students understand a "procedure" in math but really do not understand the concept. They can get a pretty good grade on a question, but my feeling is they really did not understand what was going on? How would you address that?
I think that is might be fairer to mark one question at a time, but (a) how do you get past the boredom and (b) how do you get a sense of the individual student? Also, shouldn't you be looking at teaching and learning, not just saving yourself time. I have tried this method and I find I have a good idea about the question performance but I forget individual students and do not have a sense of how well a single student did. In other words, I focus on questions not students and it didn't feel quite right. What say you?
I have been reflecting a little more about giving general feedback to a class. Do you think there is any value in doing that? If so, what is the value? It has occurred to me that all that a student would be interested in is (a) their specific feedback and (b) how they did with respect to the class. The latter reason is probably not a good habit to encourage, at least with respect to promoting good learning. What do you think?
You do raise a good point, but I don’t think we should penalize them and not give them any part marks. At least they understood something in the math process and I think they should be rewarded marks for that.
(a) I think I’d be equally bored if I mark either the whole test at once or one question at a time. So there is no way to get around the “boredom” of marking. (b) I don’t understand how marking one question at a time will push you away from seeing how individual students did on a test. Why can’t you assess how a student is doing through one question at a time? I never had that problem.
I feel that giving general feedback to a whole class doesn’t necessarily have any value. When I had teachers that gave feedback to the whole class, I always found it more like a little blurb of introduction announcing that the teacher is handing the test back. I do agree with you where the student is mostly interested in their specific feedback and how they did with respect to the class. So the only value that giving general feedback to the class has is when a student can see how he/she did with respect to the class.
I really enjoyed this video, it give us a lot of great suggestions and insights into assessment. Some of the observations that I did not think about, or had not crossed my mind, were having to create multiple versions of the same test if you have multiple classes you are teaching. Or how to accommodate for students on IEP’s. The only point that I feel differently about is the point about marking the whole test at a time. I do not mark the whole test at a time, nor do I mark one question at a time. I prefer to mark one page at a time. I can turn the answer sheet to the page and the flip each students test to the page and go through the entire page at a time. This way I do not get bored with marking the same question 30 times in a row, but I can ensure that I am marking each question on the page fairly and evenly from one test to the next. I really enjoyed this video and this is a great resource for us to have as we go out on our first placement. (Taylor)
Taylor, I would love to hear your thoughts on a few other points as well.
I think that is might be fairer to mark one question at a time, but (a) how do you get past the boredom and (b) how do you get a sense of the individual student? Also, shouldn't you be looking at teaching and learning, not just saving yourself time. I have tried this method and I find I have a good idea about the question performance but I forget individual students and do not have a sense of how well a single student did. In other words, I focus on questions not students and it didn't feel quite right. What say you?
That's a good point. I guess I have not done it enough at this point so I haven't had to worry about the boredom but perhaps getting a sense of the individual student is a good point. I do find it hard to remember how they did on past questions when I get to a certain student and try to remember similar mistakes they made previously in the test. I am sure I may feel differently about this as I mark start a career and mark on a regular basis.
I find marking one question out of all the test is faster. In addition, it helps keep the marking consistent has you our only focusing on one question, regardless of the marking scheme. Your third suggest said to give students more than enough space to write answers. I wouldn’t give more space than is required on average to complete the question as it may allude what is required. I remember one teacher giving to much space. He only wanted a one line answer and people gave him a half a page answer, wasting valuable time on the test which could have been used on other questions (Likely I skipped the question until someone asked what he wanted at the end). Also I know a lot of kids who would want the average. Do we give in and give them the average? Or just keep with the general feedback. Everything else I agreed on.
ReplyDelete(Justin Schulte)
Justin,
DeleteI agree that is might be fairer to mark one question at a time, but (a) how do you get past the boredom and (b) how do you get a sense of the individual student? I have tried this method and I find I have a good idea about the question performance but I forget individual students and do not have a sense of how well a single student did. In other words, I focus on questions not students and it didn't feel quite right. What say you?
How do you guess at what "every" student will require to show their work in a problem. Some need more and some need less, so giving a little more space is maybe a good option, especially when you explain to the class why you are doing this. I know you had one memorable experience BUT don't let that dictate your practice for the rest of your life. You need to critically evaluate how you might address this situation. How could I have re-word this suggestion to make it more palatable for you?
Regrading "the average" - you, as the professional teacher, need to think about the teaching and learning value of giving averages. What specific kids are asking for the average and why? Kids don't always know what is best for the whole class. In my mind, averages just feed the power of grades and I like to focus on learning. BTW - In my 20 odd years of teaching (even thought 20 is not an odd number) I don't recall students ever wanting the average?
music? When marking you shouldn't even be looking at who wrote the test, since it will probably effective your consistency in marking. You get a sense of how well a single student did when you finish marking the tests and look back to pin point where students are having difficulty. There is no playing favorites with this method:P and you don't lose that sense of how a individual student is doing by looking back at the tests after there were marked.
DeleteNo idea:S I agree that you should give enough space and knowing how much space one individual might need is difficult. But I dont want to miss lead them either. Have to find a happy medium:)
Really? that's odd, throughout high school all the students always wined about what the average was (not me by the way). But I agree with you with the fact that students are to grades focused in school. The wrong type of motivation.
I'm stunned - so marking is about supposed "objectivity" - we don;t care who the students are, it's all about the test. Don't forget, the student is the important factor here, not the questions. You seem to be treating the questions with more respect than the students.
DeleteYes, you could play favourites, but simply being aware that a student might be a favourite is good knowledge for you to gain and if you have an effective grading scheme, you should be good to go.
Regarding space - you HAVE to have an idea - you are the teacher. Just announcing that you have given more space, just in case someone writes big or needs it, plus noting the number of marks per questions should be enough.
There are all sorts of habits/patterns you may have experienced in high school which (a) may not have been the norm for everyone else and (b) may have been destructive and not helpful with respect to learning.
After watching the video, I found that I really agreed with giving part marks when marking as well as having an answer sheet available right after the test. I think that giving students a mark breakdown when teaching how to properly do the questions is an effective way for the students to learn. Also, then when doing the test, they won’t lose marks for small errors they may have missed. Also, from experience, I found that having a mark breakdown available for the class right after the test was very effective. This eliminated getting the same question asked multiple times after the test and also can help ease the students’ anxiety about the answers.
ReplyDeleteTwo points that I did not agree with were leaving lots of space on the test and giving general feedback and not a numeric average at the end of a test. When a teacher leaves too much space on a test, the students may assume that they need to give a longer answer which could take up valuable time. Leaving an adequate amount of room on the test however, is ideal. I also think that giving an academic class a numeric average is more effective as these students are normally more competitive and it gives them something to work for. If an applied class though, I think that general feedback is the more effective way to go. (Katie Hughes)
Hi Katie,
DeleteI see your point about giving space AND how do your determine the right amount of space considering individual differences in writing size and abilities to show one's work? Could you not explain to the students that you have left a good amount of space so they have the opportunity to show their work AND that they are not required to fill the space. AND I would encourage them to ALWAYS look at the value of a question.
Regarding giving an average in any class, what teaching and learning advantage does this provide? The disadvantage is that about half of the class will feel they are not good enough. Giving averages also seems to emphasize grades and competition, two factors that have been well-researched as having a negative influence on learning for a lot of students. What say you?
When considering the amount of space to leave on a test, the size of the students writing should be taken into account but then there should also be extra room at the end of the test for those students that run out of room. I think the most important point to tell the students is to take into consideration the number of marks that the question is worth. This should help guide them to the appropriate amount to write.
DeleteAs for providing the class with an average, I don't feel that it provides an advantage at all. I just know that as a student, the class average was normally given to us and it either made me work harder to attain that average or keep working hard to stay above it. I do however see how it may discourage students in the class so a better approach might be to just to give helpful feedback on certain questions that the class as a whole struggled on.
Okay - so the average motivated you to try to work harder toward being like everyone else or maybe a little better. My new question is, does the number represented by an "average" mean anything with respect to actual learning? And why does being "average" or "above average" mean so much? And with respect to feedback, wouldn't individual feedback be the best approach?
DeleteI have never really considered how long creating a good assessment takes. The 3-7 hr timeframe seems really long at first, but if you think about all of the prep work that goes into it, it makes sense since the questions need to be clear, the spacing is appropriate and the answer key needs to be made (they are really helpful).
ReplyDeleteDividing the questions into steps is important to create consistency in your marking. Students will compare tests and if one gets more part marks than another you will get complaints and accusations of favouritism.
I also agree that questions should match what was taught. If you try to make a student learn something just a little different on a test they will be confused and will not have had an opportunity to ask questions about the new material. This type of question would make a good bonus question though.
Accomodating for students with IEPs is not something I have much experience with, but it is important to consider IEPs when making a test. We need to give every student a fair chance to succeed.
Marking one question at a time is a good idea in theory since it should lead to more consistency. However, I feel that I would personally get bored doing the same question over and over again. Marking the whole test would help me stay mentally engaged and should lead to fewer errors on my part.
I think that general feedback is a good idea, but I am not against giving out the average either. I think that many students want to know where they stand and might be motivated to try harder if they get a mark below average (although that is more likely with older students). (Ted)
Hi Ted,
DeleteI was wondering what you think the qualities and purpose of a good bonus question is? I wonder if there is any value to a bonus question whatsoever in terms of teaching and learning - I'm sure sure. What do you think?
My experience with marking questions matches your feelings - I did get bored marking the same question and I never got a real sense of individual students.
Regarding average, I would encourage you to think about all students, not just the few who would be motivated by grades. What teaching and learning advantage is there to giving an average? What is students are working hard and reaching their potential? Does average mean anything?
I think a good bonus question would be good to motivate the higher level students and can give them a challenge. I don't think that a bonus question should be worth too many marks, since we mostly want to assess their abilities on the actual course work. I think the bonus question should cover something related to the unit, but be a higher level question or involve more difficult algebra to be challenging.
DeleteI still think that marks motivate students to try harder, but they are more motivated by thier personal goals/expectations and are more competitive with their own friends, who they exchange marks with anyways. So I guess that average doesn't mean too much to them.
Money, prizes, rewards do motivate students but that doesn't mean they are actually learning. And this kind of motivation is extrinsic and fleeting. Intrinsic rewards are typically more meaningful and long lasting. I would rather my students truly love math than get high grades.
DeleteI definitely agreed with the fact that it is very challenging to be clear in your instructions or assessment questions. I also agree with making revisions often and not using the same assessments from year to year. I think part marks are SO important. If a student makes a mistake in one of the earlier steps and carries on, the answer will be incorrect, but it's important to recognize that the student understand the method of solving a math problem.
ReplyDeleteUnlike the majority of people, I would argue that giving the class general feedback is better than giving a class average. While marks are important and usually are a reflection of a student's standing, giving feedback is much more important for students to grow and learn from their mistakes. In my opinion, mentioning that class average is X creates an unnecessary "hierarchy" in the class, leaving some students disappointed.
I do not agree with leaving more than enough room for students to answer a question. In my opinion, if there is too much room on the page, students might think that there is more to the answer and wonder what they are missing.
(Diana)
A thoughtful reflection (maybe because I agree with it - smile).
DeleteHow do you determine what enough space is in a question? From my experience, teachers (me) are really bad at doing this. So why might it be difficult for a teacher to figure out how much space is needed?
Most often, questions involving steps should be answered as each line representing a step. When creating the assessment questions in a word processor, I would type the steps for the answer as well, and look at how much space that takes. I would then leave a few extra lines of space in the blank test to accommodate for students with larger writing.
DeleteThat being said, we can't assume that students know to format their answer this way, and so we have to also teach students that each step should be written on a different line directly underneath the previous step.
Yes but this goes against what Dan Meyer was saying doesn't it?
DeleteI really don't think it does... I am not referring to giving students steps for solving a problem (ex. What is the vertical change? What is the horizontal change? What is the ratio between them? and Which section is the steepest?). What I am referring to is, as the teacher, solving the problem you are posing to your students, whether that may be a computational problem or an open-ended word problem with real world applications. While doing this, look at how much space is needed for you to solve. (I am making the assumption that as the teacher you have a high level of knowledge about the subject, and will be using Occam's razor principle in using the least number of steps required to solve). Then, leave a bit extra space for your students.
DeleteI agree with you on all of the points and partially on #9. When marking, I think I would prefer to mark one page at a time. This would help to ensure consistency as well as minimize the marker’s boredom. Having full answer sheet available is also important for consistency and accuracy when marking.
ReplyDeleteIt is understandable that it takes a long time to write a good assessment. Writing the assessment, writing the answer key and then marking the assessment, each take a long time if done well.
Providing an appropriate amount space for students’ answers is important. Personally, I found it extremely frustrating when I ran out of space for my answers on a test.
I think that part marks are necessary. They give the students hope and demonstrate to them that what they know and their work still has value even if they don’t get a correct final answer. The emphasis is on the process of getting the answer and not only on the final answer. Part marks also encourage the students to at least attempt every question. (Inga)
Hi Inga,
DeleteI agree that is might be fairer to mark one question at a time, but (a) how do you get past the boredom and (b) how do you get a sense of the individual student? I have tried this method and I find I have a good idea about the question performance but I forget individual students and do not have a sense of how well a single student did. In other words, I focus on questions not students and it didn't feel quite right. What say you?
And what did you disagree with in the assessment video at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrxrGOLxMPQ - there must have been something.
Very good video on assessment! All the points were relevant, and I never even thought of the last point about not giving out percentages, but instead some general feedback. Typically I have just given general feedback because I rarely get through marking a test in a single night, and students want feedback as soon as possible. I never thought of how students would feel by hearing an actual numerical percentage.
ReplyDeleteWhen it comes to marking whole test vs. one question, I am the one question marker. If I arrange the tests on a table so that the same one question is shown for all tests, I can just plow through really fast and be consistent in my marking. I generally take up an entire table during this type of marking.
HI Adele,
DeleteI agree that is might be fairer to mark one question at a time, but (a) how do you get past the boredom and (b) how do you get a sense of the individual student? I have tried this method and I find I have a good idea about the question performance but I forget individual students and do not have a sense of how well a single student did. In other words, I focus on questions not students and it didn't feel quite right. What say you?
Any other points you want to make for
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrxrGOLxMPQ
a) It would have to be a very long test for me to get bored. I usually am able to use this method to mark a test fast enough that I can get through it before I get bored (listening to music helps too). b) I purposely avoid getting a sense of the individual student while marking a test, to keep from letting my opinion of the student affect my marking. After all the marking is completed, I will create page totals and test totals, and am able to reflect on the individual students.
DeleteYes - I understand you purposely avoiding getting a sense of the student for "objectivity", but that really doesn't sound right. As a teacher I want to get to know my students, there personal ways of thinking, so I can help them and make suggestions. As long as my scoring scheme is sound, I don't worry about bias. I tried the one item at a time approach a number of times and I had no feel of how my students did. I felt like a robot grading tests.
DeleteChristine
ReplyDeleteAfter watching the video, I agreed on the majority of your opinions.
To begin, you mentioned that students should be given an ample amount of space to answer the questions. However, if this is done for all questions, students will be unsure of what is expected of them (e.g. if the answer is a single sentence, students might wonder whether they have read the question incorrectly). However, if each question states how much it is worth, this confusion can be avoided (i.e. question is out of 3, the teacher expects 3 points to be written).
You also mentioned that teachers should not provide the class average after a test. I believe that providing feedback on student success is much more important and an appropriate approach. However, there will always be (at least at the high school level) students who will be interested in this percentage. Is there a suitable method for dealing with this situation?
I also agree with providing part marks. Math isn’t only about getting the final answer; the process of getting to that answer is far more important. I do agree that students should be encouraged to show all of their steps since this improves their communication skills. However, as mentioned last class, some students do not show all of their steps since they do the math in their head. It is highly probable that as a future teacher I will have these students in my classroom, and thus, I will encourage them to show as much work as they can. I will need to communicate to my class (on several occasions) what is expected of them and make an answer key that is consistent with what I have said in order to encourage fairness.
Lastly, I also strongly agree with no trick questions on tests. I believe that the point of evaluation is to see if your students are able to understand what you taught them. Testing them on more difficult questions is unfair and causes students to become frustrated, discouraged and lack self-esteem. Nonetheless, trick questions as bonus are fair game.
Hi Christine,
DeleteThis is a very thoughtful and detailed reply. Regarding averages, I would say to students that I don't give them out. That they should be focussing on their own learning - how well other people do in the class is not going to help them learn more and grow as a student. I "may" have had to do that once and students never asked again. Thoughtful feedback about specific questions was far more helpful, at least in my mind.
Regrading part marks - I genuinely wonder if we have to be careful about what we give part marks for. Sometimes students understand a "procedure" in math but really do not understand the concept. They can get a pretty good grade on a question, but my feeling is they really did not understand what was going on? How would you address that?
I was wondering what you think the qualities and purpose of a good bonus question is? I wonder if there is any value to a bonus question whatsoever in terms of teaching and learning - I'm sure sure. What do you think?
I do believe that students get into the habit of following procedure rather than understanding the material. Many students simply memorize what has been done in class in order to be successful on the test. If I feel my students are getting into this habit, I will encourage them to focus on understanding the material. This can be done by incorporating more communication questions on their tests (i.e. explain your steps, explain why this is the wrong procedure to use in this question etc.). In addition, evaluating students orally would be a relatively effective method in gauging students’ understanding of concepts since memorization is not emphasized.
DeleteIn addition, I believe bonus questions can be both effective and ineffective. To begin, in a class where students are strong academically, this is a great tool to ensure motivation and engagement are maintained (while encouraging positive competition). In addition, bonus questions in this type of classroom push students to reach their full potential and develop intellectually. However, in a class where only a few students (or no students) are exceptionally strong academically, it can hinder student performance. Either no students will be able to get the bonus question or a few students get it every time. This fact, generally, discourages students who aren’t as strong academically and causes them to lose confidence and motivation. More specifically, during my placement, we had daily brainteasers. Almost every day, one student in particular would get the answer before the rest of the class. This fact discouraged others from wanting to participate since they felt as though they had no chance. As a result, the bell ringer activities were changed daily (not just brain teasers) to give the rest of the class a chance.
Ultimately, I believe bonus questions do have a time and place, however, whether or not they are effective is dependent on the type of question and the academic abilities of the class.
What if all questions were more like bonus questions - Dan Meyer type questions? That would create an interesting culture.
DeleteI agree with Step 4, which states that problems should be broken into sub-steps and that part marks should be awarded for these sub-steps. One thing that is challenging about designing problems with sub-steps is that subsequent steps often depend on previous steps. If certain steps are not completed, the problem cannot be completed. Therefore, questions should be designed so that students do not necessarily have to complete the steps in order.
ReplyDelete(Jason)
Hi Jason,
DeleteYou explain this one point well, but there were so many points made in the video. What did you disagree with for
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrxrGOLxMPQ
I agree with the point about giving students more than enough space to answer their questions. I have noticed that a lot of teachers do not give their students enough space, which it difficult for a lot of students, especially those that don’t have small, neat writing. As long as your expectations for each question are clear, having extra space should not be confusing for students. I also agree that trick questions should only be used as bonus questions. However, I do not think that all questions should be exactly the same as what you have taught. Students should be able to apply their knowledge to solve new and different questions, especially once they reach secondary school. I believe it is so important for students to be able to do more than just regurgitate what you have taught, but also be able to apply it to new, real world situations.
ReplyDelete(Caroline)
Hi Caroline,
DeleteI was wondering what you think the qualities and purpose of a good bonus question is? I wonder if there is any value to a bonus question whatsoever in terms of teaching and learning - I'm sure sure. What do you think?
Regrading "trick" question, your point has an odd logic. A good teacher should have a clear set of learning goals when he/she teachers and clearly communicate those goals to the students. So changing those specific goals, especially in a test situation, seems unreasonable and unfair. I don't think students can be expected to read the teacher's mind about what they "should" be able to do. Usually, when teacher do this, most students can't do the question. Also, there is a serious amount of research to suggest that humans do no transfer knowledge well. Regurgitation is not a typical learning goal in math - application is the minimum, especially in grades 7 to 12. Can you give me a specific example of a concept you would teach and the kind of "trick" question you think it would be fair to ask?
I wrote that trick questions would NOT be fair to ask unless they are asked as bonus questions. However, a good bonus question is not a trick question. All questions, including bonus questions should have clear expectations that are communicated to students.
DeleteA good bonus question would allow students to demonstrate their understanding of a concept by applying it to something new that was not discussed in class. This shows that the student has exceptional understanding of the subject matter. Students that are able to effectively answer these questions exceed the curriculum expectations and are thus given bonus marks to reflect this. I think that Bonus questions are useful to student learning as they encourage students to think beyond the scope of the course and apply what they have learned in a manner that exceeds curriculum expectations. It provides a means by which assessments are differentiated to suit the needs of varying students and push those that are at the top of the class to further their learning without penalizing those that are not at the same level.
.
Well the research or evidence suggests that even professors are unable to transfer in the simplest of situations, so perhaps you are setting the bar way too high. Whether you accept it or not, far transfer, the kind that you are talking about, is rare. Now if you gave a Dan Meyer's type question - that would be more reasonable for all students - see how they think. For example, right now, I am trying to push you to listening to and perhaps finding evidence to support your claims - it is proving to be quite a challenge. I know you understand the notion of evidence and would probably support its use in medicine - But for some reason, you are unable to transfer the idea that your practice as a teacher needs to be guided bu evidence/research too. But you make really strong claims without any evidence whatsoever. So transfer is really hard - look it up - and probably should NOT be used as an assessment criteria even if you do use the political buzzword "differentiated" to support your argument (smile).
DeleteThis was a good, informative video. I strongly agree that teachers need to make revisions in their tests from year to year. I can relate to this because I’ve personally asked students in upper years for their previous tests. I’ve often found that teachers did not change the majority of the questions they asked.
ReplyDeleteI agree that it is important to give students enough space to show their work because we want to encourage them to show their work. However, I think a teacher needs to be aware of how much extra space to give. If students have a whole page to do a five line problem, having all that extra space might get them thinking that they might be wrong, and there should be more to the answer.
I also think that it is important to break up questions into steps and determine how you break up the marks. If a question is not broken up into parts, it could be very overwhelming and start to cause confusion. Having different sections will provide structure. I agree that it is also important to teach the students that it isn’t all about getting the right answer. With this known, I feel that it will take a lot of pressure of students, and they will be focused on the question as a whole, not just the answer.
I find the fifth point interesting. I agree that it is important to make sure you ask questions that match what you have taught. However, how will the students develop problem solving skills if every question you ask is something that they have seen before? With accommodations, would you make a slightly more challenging test for students who are gifted?
I personally like marking one question at a time in tests. This allows me to focus on a single question at a time and ensure that I am marking consistently. It also allows each test to be anonymous.
(Lauren Quinto)
Hi Lauren,
DeleteThanks for you detailed comments. I have a few questions. How would you determine how much space is needed for a question and why are teacher so bad at doing this (in my person experience anyway).
Regarding asking questions that match what you are taught, you asked about problem solving skills. I didn't mean ask the exact same questions, but questions with a similar format. Asking a totally new question in a test is not reasonable in terms of teaching and unfair. I am sure gifted student would really appreciate challenging questions BUT not necessarily in a test situation.
I agree that is might be fairer to mark one question at a time, but (a) how do you get past the boredom and (b) how do you get a sense of the individual student? I have tried this method and I find I have a good idea about the question performance but I forget individual students and do not have a sense of how well a single student did. In other words, I focus on questions not students and it didn't feel quite right. What say you?
Hi Robin,
DeleteI do have an idea of how I would determine how much space for a question but I am not sure if it would work because I don't have the a lot of experience. We want to be evaluating students with questions that have a similar format to something they have seen before. If I teach and show the steps on how to solve different problems in class, I will leave enough room based on how much room was needed to do the questions in the lesson. However, I can already see how this could cause issues such as how big a student writes. I encountered this problem on placement when I made a frayer model graphic organizer for a science lesson. I noticed that there was not enough room for the students who write larger.
I think teachers are so bad at this because we might only leave enough space in consideration to what we would need personally. If you have a class of 31 students, it will be hard to create the "right" amount of space for each individuals need.
You bring up something that I've never really thought of. Though first off, I feel that marking in general is something that will become boring whether it's one question at a time or one entire paper at a time. Though I really like your second point. Thinking about this, a reason we evaluate is to assess the student. There is no way I can assess the student properly if I am just going question by question. Though, it is easier for me this way, I now realize that I am no longer focusing on the individual but focused on making my life easier as a marker.
Thanks for the input!
Lauren
Marking is so much better when you connect the work with a student you know - at least for me. I was assessing the students, not just producing grades.
DeleteI agree that you need to take the time when making an assessment. You can’t expect students to give high quality answers to a low quality assessment – a rushed or messy assessment. I agree that giving students enough space to answer is very important, and also not constricting the type of answers they can give - allowing them to answer in different ways allows for greater connections and deeper thought (I just read a book on this in another class).
ReplyDeleteI strongly agree that you should let your students know what will be on the assignment/test. I HATE trick questions. You want them to succeed, why mess with them? Unfortunately you really see this a lot in University courses. If you don’t teach it, you can’t test it.
I do agree that questions should be broken into steps, this will help make the question clear, but too many steps is overwhelming. Having a question with steps a through z is insane. More steps allows for part marks which I am a HUGE fan of (probably how I survived university!). In my opinion you owe it to the student to search for part marks, any sign of them understanding the concept. When you break it into steps and search for part marks you can get a clearer picture on what they know and what steps they are confused about.
Honestly I’m not a big fan of bonus questions. Students can get distracted and zone in on this question and overlook the actual content.
When I was on placement in 2nd year my Associate Teacher suggested marking each test one page at a time – mark all the page ones, then twos, etc. This way you can get into a routine – what to look for and what the common mistakes were. I used this when I was a Teacher’s Assistant and it served me well and saved my sanity!
(Denise Rowsell)
Hi Denise,
DeleteNice entry - well done.
Regrading part marks - I genuinely wonder if we have to be careful about what we give part marks for. Sometimes students understand a "procedure" in math but really do not understand the concept. They can get a pretty good grade on a question, but my feeling is they really did not understand what was going on? How would you address that?
I know you feel bonus questions can be distracting? I genuinely wonder if there is any value to a bonus question whatsoever in terms of teaching and learning - I'm sure sure. What do you think?
I agree that is might be fairer to mark one question at a time, but (a) how do you get past the boredom and (b) how do you get a sense of the individual student? I have tried this method and I find I have a good idea about the question performance but I forget individual students and do not have a sense of how well a single student did. In other words, I focus on questions not students and it didn't feel quite right. What say you?
(Joe Anne Guerrero)
ReplyDeleteThis video brought up a lot of key points about assessment that teachers need to consider. I think it is so important to be very clear in your questions because students and teachers think differently so something that makes perfect sense to you may not be clear for the students.
I agree that when a teacher marks questions, they should be broken down into steps to allow for part marks. If a student accidentally wrote the wrong number at the beginning of the question but did everything else correctly, they should get part marks instead of a zero. Yes, students should check their work, but sometimes they don’t have time or they don’t catch that little mistake.
I strongly agree that all questions must match exactly what the teacher taught. There is no point in stressing the students out by testing them on things that weren’t taught. Also, I think trick questions should not be given on a test. It can be very frustrating for the students and can throw them off during a test.
I have previously heard that marking one question at a time is more efficient, opposed to marking the whole test, one by one. I think everyone has their own style and idea of the best marking method for them, and I guess I won’t know what works for me until I start marking.
Finally, I strongly agree that teachers should give general feedback; feedback is definitely important for the students’ success. I don’t think students need to know the numerical average because the students should focus on their own success, and not how the class did compared to themselves. However, this may be difficult to avoid because some students insist on knowing the class average after a test. Also, teachers should not tell the class the highest and lowest grade, it never feels good knowing you have the lowest grade out of all your classmates.
Hi Joe Anne,
DeleteNice bit of work here. I was wondering 2 things. What didn't you agree with on the video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrxrGOLxMPQ
and will you let your student dictate weather you tell them the average. Why do you think they want to know the average? Do their reasons have anything to do with teaching and learning?
I have to say I was in agreement with all of these points. In my experience they all help students do better on tests and that is our goal as educators is it not, to help students achieve success? The only thing that scared me about this was the 3-7 hours to write a good assessment, if I was putting this much time into every single task I wanted to use for assessment right down to basic assignments I can't begin to imagine how far in advance I need to plan. I think breaking things into sub-steps for marking is really important and am glad that it is on this list. This gives students the opportunity to not be penalized heavily if they make a small error on one step. If you can see students understand the concept then one small error should not cost them their entire mark for one question. Marking the entire assessment and not just parts as well as giving students full answers to see where they went wrong are all steps a teacher should be taking to ensure that their students can and will improve. There was nothing in this video I didn't agree with or already intend to do. (Alisa Magarelli)
ReplyDeleteHi Alisa,
DeleteI found your comment on assessment interesting. The first thing you start with when you plan a lesson is the learning goals - what do you want students to learn and be able to do. So you need to know the kind of questions you would ask students in a test before you begin planning your unit. As for the 3-7 hours - you will see (those math equations are so much fun to type in) and if you don;t create a marking sheet, it takes so much longer to grade and you are never sure if you are consistent.
Regrading part marks - I genuinely wonder if we have to be careful about what we give part marks for. Sometimes students understand a "procedure" in math but really do not understand the concept. They can get a pretty good grade on a question, but my feeling is they really did not understand what was going on? How would you address that?
Just for fun, go to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrxrGOLxMPQ and find somehting you "could"disagree with.
I haven't put much thought into creating tests so the first point about writing a good assessment was useful. None of the points were surprising but it's nice to have them all summarized together as a reference. Making two or more similar versions seems like the most time consuming part but I would assume it's easy enough to find 'pools' of questions for each section of a test. But then again making questions match EXACTLY what you taught may make things a bit harder. Providing a challenging bonus question on each test sounds like a great idea. Also, I find it useful to hear general class feedback so I'd probably do the same. I don't mind knowing what the average grade was but usually you can figure this out through the feedback. I would disagree with marking one whole test at a time. In my experience I mark more efficiently and more fairly if I only keep two questions (and all their possible solutions) in my mind at any time. This usually works out to me marking half a page at a time. (Lukas)
ReplyDeleteHi Lucas,
DeleteIt's funny how assessment has not come on your radar when it should be one of the first things a teacher does - formative assessment or assessment for learning. How do you know if your teaching is effective if you don't regularly assess students in lesson (not tests).
Making 2-3 tests is a bit of a pain, but you can shuffle questions and change numbers - they don't have to be that different. Be very careful about pools of questions - a number of textbook questions are not that great and you must be sure about whether the questions matches what you taught. I found it best to create my own questions albeit time consuming.
I was wondering what you think the qualities and purpose of a good bonus question is? I wonder if there is any value to a bonus question whatsoever in terms of teaching and learning - I'm sure sure. What do you think?
I agree that is might be fairer to mark one question at a time, but (a) how do you get past the boredom and (b) how do you get a sense of the individual student? I have tried this method and I find I have a good idea about the question performance but I forget individual students and do not have a sense of how well a single student did. In other words, I focus on questions not students and it didn't feel quite right. What say you?
I liked the idea of assessing students exactly on what was taught. I’ve never been a fan of trick questions and don’t see why some teachers include them besides for bonus marks. In grade 12 I experienced a teacher whose philosophy was that all questions on tests should be ones students haven’t seen before, and the entire Application and TIPS part would be “thinking outside the box problems”. I never liked this, because to me a teacher’s job is to assess how well the students understand a set number of concepts. There’s no need to ask extremely hard problems that are slightly related to the concepts; just ask direct questions to see if they get what you taught them.
ReplyDeleteI also liked the point about giving general feedback instead of announcing averages. I was probably one of the few kids who didn’t like this even though I was almost always above it. It just seemed like unneeded anxiety when the teacher would announce it before even seeing my individual test mark, and I’m sure others in my class felt the same. I agree that it shouldn’t be brought up, but instead general feedback should be used to avoid this.
The one thing that I didn’t like was the idea of 3-7 hours of prep to make an assessment (but I don’t know who would like that haha). I understand the need for this though as there is so many things to take into consideration, as mentioned in the video. Assessment is a major part of the teaching profession and performing properly is essential to student success. Because of this, the preparation is extremely important as it ensures proper assessment is being delivered. I think the student will also be able to tell the difference; at least I always could. A well thought out and effective test or assignment always fit so much more smoothly into the unit; whereas a handout pulled from the internet lacks importance and stands out among the others.
All in all I agreed with all the points brought up. Most seem like criteria to keep in mind while teaching. Even the optional point of marking either one question at a time, or whole test brings up a good point; we need to develop our own methods as teachers that work well for us. Although the needs of the students are our primary focus, we need to consider our own sanity and be sure to develop methods of assessment that don't drive us crazy.
(Sean)
I agree that is might be fairer to mark one question at a time, but (a) how do you get past the boredom and (b) how do you get a sense of the individual student? I have tried this method and I find I have a good idea about the question performance but I forget individual students and do not have a sense of how well a single student did. In other words, I focus on questions not students and it didn't feel quite right. What say you?
DeleteDo you think there is any way around the 3-7 hours involved in assessment? I have not been able to do this - it always take longer than I think.
Although I didn’t actually comment on whether I prefer marking one question at a time or entire tests, I agree with you. When marking entire tests as a whole you get a much better idea of the student’s overall understanding of the subject. You can provide better feedback for them and establish things you may want to discuss with the student to help them succeed next time. When marking question by question these things often aren’t thought of. Over my placement I had the opportunity to mark a science unit test that I had written for my class. I found that marking multiple choice questions and classifying terms in a chart were easy to do one student at a time, but for the problems were the student needed to have deeper written responses I preferred to mark as a whole. This allowed me to use the effectiveness of marking one question at a time while not compromising my ability to assess each student individually and provide relevant feedback for them.
DeleteThis is the only way I can think of answering your second question as well. By splitting up the marking methods through the test I found it didn’t seem as long of a process to mark (it still took a few hours though). It seems like no matter how detailed I made my solutions it’s impossible to predict the responses the students will give. Often times they’re not wrong either so you need to rethink how you will mark them while staying fair to the rest of the class.
I agree with most of the points in this video. In particular I agree that assignments should take a long time to make or else you're probably doing something wrong. I can remember being very annoyed with some of my math teachers in the past who had obviously not put much thought into their assignments or test questions- there were numerous errors and many of the questions were poorly worded and unclear.
ReplyDeleteI think the marking whole test vs. one question at a time debate is an interesting one. I think it depends on the type of questions in the assessment. For communication questions I think it's important to mark one question at a time since this can be a bit more subjective and it's important to be consistent in assigning marks. For calculations and knowledge questions I think these could all be marked at once for each student to save time.
I think your point about making sure the questions match exactly what you taught is interesting. I agree that you shouldn't just expect students to know things, but I also think that test questions shouldn't just be examples from the notes or the homework with the numbers changed. Problem solving is a very important skill in mathematics and I think it's extremely important that students be able to apply what they know to a situation or problem they haven't seen before. I know you mentioned that the research shows students have a very hard time with this- my personal belief is that this is likely because these sorts of questions aren't asked often enough. Of course, I would never make a whole test or assignment out of just these types of questions; I think a balance of easy and difficult questions is important.
Hi Wareen,
DeleteI agree that is might be fairer to mark one question at a time, but (a) how do you get past the boredom and (b) how do you get a sense of the individual student? I have tried this method and I find I have a good idea about the question performance but I forget individual students and do not have a sense of how well a single student did. In other words, I focus on questions not students and it didn't feel quite right. What say you?
Regrading "trick" question, your point has an odd logic. A good teacher should have a clear set of learning goals when he/she teachers and clearly communicate those goals to the students. So changing those specific goals, especially in a test situation, seems unreasonable and unfair. I don't think students can be expected to read the teacher's mind about what they "should" be able to do. Usually, when teacher do this, most students can't do the question. Also, there is a serious amount of research to suggest that humans do no transfer knowledge well. Regurgitation is not a typical learning goal in math - application is the minimum, especially in grades 7 to 12. Can you give me a specific example of a concept you would teach and the kind of "trick" question you think it would be fair to ask?
As for the research on transfer, much of the thinking is on how the brain works and organizes information. Some test have been conducted with graduate students, who one would argue have considerable experience problem solving, but cannot transfer in seemingly obvious situations. Are you prepared to let your teaching be guided by the hunch you have that "Regrading "trick" question, your point has an odd logic. A good teacher should have a clear set of learning goals when he/she teachers and clearly communicate those goals to the students. So changing those specific goals, especially in a test situation, seems unreasonable and unfair. I don't think students can be expected to read the teacher's mind about what they "should" be able to do. Usually, when teacher do this, most students can't do the question. Also, there is a serious amount of research to suggest that humans do no transfer knowledge well. Regurgitation is not a typical learning goal in math - application is the minimum, especially in grades 7 to 12. Can you give me a specific example of a concept you would teach and the kind of "trick" question you think it would be fair to ask?". Is that enough reasoning and evidence for any professional teacher?
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteYou've probably done a lot more marking than I have, so perhaps I don't really appreciate how boring it can get. During my first placement I tried a bit of each style of marking and I can see why you prefer marking one student entirely before moving on to the next- you do get a much better sense of how each student did.
DeleteAs for the part on trick questions, I think I may have misunderstood the point you were trying to make in the video. I'm not really advocating for trick questions, but for application problems that are not absolutely identical to ones seen before. For example, let's take a grade 8 lesson on area and perimeter. If I did a problem in class about finding the number of sections (of given length) needed to make a fence around a yard (of given shape and dimensions) I think it would be fair to ask a test question asking how many bricks (of given length) are required to make a border around a certain garden. The question is different than something seen before but I think it still falls under the same learning goal (recognize real-life situations that require area or perimeter measurements).
This is a good video. It provided ten good key points to consider when generating a good math assessment test. I strongly agree that it takes lots of time to create a good math assessment. The process involves keying in some complex math equations, proper formatting, putting the test questions in chronological order which the materials have presented in class and let’s not forget the graphical diagram some question might require. And it takes even more time for teachers to make different versions of the test to ensure students do not have a copy from previous years. I do not agree in providing students more than enough space to show their work. I agree to provide adequate space for students to do and show their work but do not give them too many spaces that it will make the test seem like a booklet. Now, that will freak the students out and discourage them before they even start to write the test. My reasoning for spacing is to provide one line per one step and if they need more space they could always ask for more blank paper which I will be happy to provide. (Sylvia)
ReplyDeleteHi Sylvia,
DeleteHow do you guess at what "every" student will require to show their work in a problem. Some need more and some need less, so giving a little more space is maybe a good option, especially when you explain to the class why you are doing this. I know you had one memorable experience BUT don't let that dictate your practice for the rest of your life. You need to critically evaluate how you might address this situation. How could I have re-word this suggestion to make it more palatable for you?
I would encourage you to comment on more points in the future - just so I understand your thinking.
A couple of thoughts:
ReplyDelete1) I don't really think a test should ever take 7 hours to design - I do understand making multiple versions and formatting, but if you're giving students questions they're familiar with, then you too will be familiar with it. I do support multiple versions for sure. Seen my fair share of cheat-sheets.
2) Agreed completely with a lot of space. As a student who used to use that as an excuse ("Why give us no space? Clearly it shouldn't take much space to write the solution"), giving ample spaces takes the short-answer mentality out of their head.
3) Bonus questions should have very small overall weight (I'd said between 1-5% max). I've seen tests out of 30 where the bonus will be out of 5 - that's about 16-17% extra, and students will get tunnel-vision on the question. Since most bonus questions are trick questions that require a lot more thinking, this is time wasted that could have been used on the actual test.
4) When I marked, I used to mark a page at a time. I found this made a nice middle between consistency (since the page ranged around 7-12 questions, which wasn't hard to remember) and speed.
(K.V.)
Hi K.V.
DeleteGood luck with creating tests in a shorter time - I wish you well (smile).
I was wondering what you think the qualities and purpose of a good bonus question is? I wonder if there is any value to a bonus question whatsoever in terms of teaching and learning - I'm sure sure. What do you think?
I agree that is might be fairer to mark one question at a time, but (a) how do you get past the boredom and (b) how do you get a sense of the individual student? I have tried this method and I find I have a good idea about the question performance but I forget individual students and do not have a sense of how well a single student did. In other words, I focus on questions not students and it didn't feel quite right. What say you?
I guess I'll have to wait and see about writing tests - so I'll get back to you in a few years on that one. :P
DeleteAlthough I do feel bonus questions do have great potential on testing critical thinking (it shouldn't be for the points, although it's the incentive to get students to attempt them), I feel that students lose focus when they see a high-weighted bonus question. This too hold if they can't answer any of the previous questions. If they can't answer the questions before the bonus, how are they supposed to even try to tackle the bonus, which will have fundamentals taken from the previous questions? If you make it smaller, they'll do the rest of the test first, which will build them to the bonus. That's just my thought at least.
To me mentally, doing a page at time fights the boredom - I can see that I'm actually progressing through all the booklets of test... Maybe it's just how I view it. Although I do agree with you on the individual student. Doing the page at a time can sometimes make you lose focus on what test you're marking. I don't have a good response for this, so I guess I'll just have to see through my own experiences how that pans out. But I'll definitely look into it.
What I agree with:
ReplyDelete-I agree that different students may interpret your explanations differently, and that what you find to be clear and easy to understand may not be reciprocated by the student
WHY? As we've been told many times in various classes this year, the default learning style teachers most often cater to is their own (perhaps this is why so many linguistic learners are successful in our educational system)
-I agree that when assessing multi-step questions you should carefully determine the number of steps you are marking. I agree with the idea that each step should be worth one mark, and I wouldn't bother giving 1/2 or 1/4 marks.
WHY? My grade 11 chemistry teacher always made multi-page tests out of 7-10 marks, and awarded 1/4 marks - as a student, I hated the idea that a single mistake could cost me an entire grade level.
-I agree that there is little to be gained by "tricking students" with certain questions
WHY? Students who have been exposed to your tests will be looking for tricks in all of the questions, and will waste time overthinking problems. Students also probably won't like you very much.
- I agree that IEP students should be accommodated.
WHY? IEP students could finish at the same time or earlier than other students, but the point is to give them more OPTIONS (more time, more space, etc)
What I disagree with:
-Although I do agree to an extent that you should give students ample space for writing down answers, I also could see how too much space could add stress for students. I disagree with, for example, leaving a whole page for a 4-step answer.
WHY? Students may misinterpret the extra space as signifying that the question requires more work than it actually does. Granted, this problem could be easily solved by showing how many marks each question is out of (though you might expect this to be a given, I've taken many tests without an indication of mark value for questions)
-I would have to take a look at both sides of the research on this (is your side the only side research supports?), but I would argue that asking questions on EXACTLY what you've taught (all copies of what you did in class) is not as effective as coming up with new questions.
WHY? Students who can memorize will simply reproduce your notes on the test. How will students be able to apply their knowledge if there's no pressure to apply it to new situations?
What I'm not sure of:
-I'll take your word that it takes that long to write an assessment, but I haven't wrote one before
-I'm not sure if I would simply use my own answer sheet alone. I may take a look at what students answered for certain questions and also consider those answers when marking other tests.
-I could go either way with providing a numerical average vs. general feedback. I don't see a big difference in telling students that "the tests were poorly done" vs "the average was 55%".
Jacob,
DeleteNice effort, coverage and detail on this blog entry - just what I am looking for - thank you.
Regarding space, wow do you guess at what "every" student will require to show their work in a problem. Some need more and some need less, so giving a little more space is maybe a good option, especially when you explain to the class why you are doing this. I know you had one memorable experience BUT don't let that dictate your practice for the rest of your life. You need to critically evaluate how you might address this situation. How could I have re-word this suggestion to make it more palatable for you?
egrading "trick" question, your point has an odd logic. A good teacher should have a clear set of learning goals when he/she teachers and clearly communicate those goals to the students. So changing those specific goals, especially in a test situation, seems unreasonable and unfair. I don't think students can be expected to read the teacher's mind about what they "should" be able to do. Usually, when teacher do this, most students can't do the question. Also, there is a serious amount of research to suggest that humans do no transfer knowledge well. Regurgitation is not a typical learning goal in math - application is the minimum, especially in grades 7 to 12. Can you give me a specific example of a concept you would teach and the kind of "trick" question you think it would be fair to ask?
Be careful about using student answers to determine your assessment guide. I did this at one time and it makes some sense BUT it encourages lazy teaching to a certain extent. If you include a question on a test, you should to it for a clear reason and it should match clear learning goals. If you need student answers to clarify those goals, then you really haven't done your preparation.
Regrading feedback - why would you say the tests were poorly done - who is that feedback for. It is VERY rare for a test to be poorly done by everyone and if you have that situation, you should start out by saying "I didn't teach these concepts very well or my test was poorly designed".
Regrading "the average" - you, as the professional teacher, need to think about the teaching and learning value of giving averages. What specific kids are asking for the average and why? Kids don't always know what is best for the whole class. In my mind, averages just feed the power of grades and I like to focus on learning. BTW - In my 20 odd years of teaching (even thought 20 is not an odd number) I don't recall students ever wanting the average?
To correct what I wrote previously, I would just like to make the point that communication is key - I think that (like you said) if you explain to the class why you are giving more space, it's perfectly fine.
DeleteFor my point on trick questions, I'm not seeing where we disagree; I agreed with you in my post - I think that it's a waste of time to give students "trick questions". You say that "[r]egurgitation is not a typical learning goal in math - application is the minimum", and this is the point I'm trying to make when I say that "I would argue that asking questions on EXACTLY what you've taught (all copies of what you did in class) is not as effective as coming up with new questions". To correct myself again, I should have defined what I mean by new questions: I would test them on the exact same concepts covered in class, but in the form of a new question. For example, in my science class I made a test question about different liquid slides (water slides, oil slides, etc), in which I wanted students to order the slides from fastest to slowest (this is a somewhat goofy question, but it brings the concept of viscosity to a real-life application).
Good point about using student answers for making assessment guides. I see where my thought process there could lead to laziness.
About a situation where tests were poorly done - this was just a random example with the 55%. My point was that there does not seem to be a difference in telling the class a numerical average or giving them general feedback. In both cases, they have an idea of how the class performed (a numerical average is just more specific), and in both cases it would be best to follow with something like you just mentioned: "I didn't teach these concepts very well" / "My test was poorly designed".
Interesting point about averages, but I actually was just using the point you made in the video to say that "I could go either way with providing a numerical average vs. general feedback". I don't actually see any good reason in telling the students the numerical class average personally; my point about class averages was just addressing your point in the video (@ 4:06).
Yes - After re-thinking this, I agree with you that presenting averages and giving general feedback are similar. Specific feedback to students is best, unless there is a clear patterns of wrong answers - and you would like to re-teach/review that part
DeleteAlthough I do agree that it takes a long time to write a good assessment, I believe that 7 hours is a bit of a stretch. I think that a great assessment can be written in less time, especially once you have gotten to know your students. I could not agree more with the third point that you made (giving the students ample space for answers). When tutoring students, I always tell them to use tons of space...especially for word problems, or anything that a visual will help them with. Then when going over their tests with them, I realize that the teacher has given them little to no room to work with. I totally agree that students should be given ample space to do their math work so that they can stay organized and neat (this makes it easier for teachers to mark too). I like the sixth point made, however I thought it a bit contradictory to what were learning in this program. I don't think that a math test should ever trick students. However, were learning that an A requires the student to go above and beyond what is learned in class. Wouldn't a trick question constitute that? Finally, I really agree with the last point you made (about giving general feedback rather than the average). Students (especially in a subject that causes so much anxiety for so many) should not ever be discouraged. You made a great point when you said that half the class will be if you give them an average. I think that giving general feedback is definitely the better way to go about it.
ReplyDeleteStephanie,
DeleteTime will tell when you start creating your own assessments and tests - Let me know how long it takes. I was curious why knowing the students would make it any easier to write an assessment. I thought assessment is geared to learning goals not who you students are, or am I missing something here?
Regrading "trick" question, your point has an odd logic. A good teacher should have a clear set of learning goals when he/she teachers and clearly communicate those goals to the students. So changing those specific goals, especially in a test situation, seems unreasonable and unfair. I don't think students can be expected to read the teacher's mind about what they "should" be able to do. Usually, when teacher do this, most students can't do the question. Also, there is a serious amount of research to suggest that humans do no transfer knowledge well. Regurgitation is not a typical learning goal in math - application is the minimum, especially in grades 7 to 12. Can you give me a specific example of a concept you would teach and the kind of "trick" question you think it would be fair to ask?
An "A" might mean going beyond what is being taught in class, but I am not sure a test situation is the best way to determine that. I see your point, though, and the levelled grading system is a bit contradictory to effective teaching. I never though about it to be honest - good point. I would advise using other forms of assessment to determine As.
After accessing your assessments suggestions I find it excessive to assess them all in succession with any success. Succinctly, just kidding no more consonance, while I obviously appreciate the advice learned from years of experience I struggle to accept how some of the suggestions appear to be based in common sense yet many teachers successfully tormented me with things like trick questions.
ReplyDeleteI am disappointed by the mention of research against trick questions. With research available I am distressed that it was not distributed to my second year quantum professor, or my third year classical mechanics professor, and that it still had not reached his desk in time for fourth year nuclear, molecular physics. I know for sure that my tests will not be the place that I introduce questions that combine the facts from unit 3 and unit 10 with a small fact that you should have learned 2 years ago. That experience made it clear to me that the way the material is presented make a huge impression on the way that knowledge is applied. Without prior experience combining skills from different units it is difficult to execute during a test for you first attempt.
General feedback has a severe flaw. I recall teachers that would give assignments or tests back at the end of a class to keep students focused on that particular class, but he or she would begin the class with general feedback. Suggesting common mistakes that most students have to work on is really distracting and discouraging. Listening to a teacher mention “some people need to remember to carry their ‘ones’” instantly sent my mind to an “oh crap” did I forget something that simple. In short I find that general feedback is only helpful when the entire class has a tendency that requires correction.
Now, blogs are supposed to be conversational right? I notice a lot of posts that disagree with the ‘extra space’ suggestion. Most of the complaints come from a belief that extra space could lead a student to over think, or over expand a problem to fit the space. But it seems to me that we are overlooking the advice that directly precedes it. It is very challenging to anticipate how students will think differently than us. The variables here range from printing size, mistakes made, whether they have a good eraser, or do they cross it out and try again beside it, how many intermediate steps a student makes, and even whether they have to do margin notes for calculations. The extra space is freedom and accommodation for the student to answer without risk of claustrophobia. Additionally, at some point you can decide it is not about the student and acknowledge that it is a lot less frustrating to mark a test with half a blank page than it is to decipher the font size six hieroglyphs that a student has tried to cram into the exam space because erasing their first three attempts left most of the work space as an unusable black smudge.
(e.g Andrew)
Hi Andrew,
DeleteVery interesting and challenging point you bring up. First, and foremost, most teachers do not care what the research says unless it supports what they want to do. That is why I am trying to push evidence-based teaching. How can we call ourselves professional, then simply do what our gut or previous experience tells us. Many teachers do wing it, however, hence your negative experiences in the past.
As for general feedback, I would tend to agree with you - specific feedback to students is what is important. So good of you to notice that.
I love your response to "extra space" - brilliant. Thank you for that level of detail and thought.
My challenging question for you - How do you plan to guard against simply following your intuitions and instincts and ignoring the research available on teaching and learning?
A Great summary of how we should assess students learning through a test.
ReplyDelete• I totally agree with you that writing a good test takes a lot of time and effort. In addition, Weighting each question based on the level of importance is a very hard task to do.
• I also think we should consider how long a test will take students to finish. We do not want students to be under time pressure.
• I think it would be faster to mark a page at a time.
• I will make sure to have an analysis of test results in order to see where most of the students have problem. I will work on those problems in the classroom and try different teaching strategies. (Shima)
Shima,
DeleteIn the future, I would suggest you take one or two points and look at them in more detail so I can see your level of processing. Most of the points here are simple agreement with what I said and I need to understand your reasoning.
I agree that is might be faster to mark one question at a time, but (a) how do you get past the boredom and (b) how do you get a sense of the individual student? Also, shouldn't you be looking at teaching and learning, not just saving yourself time. I have tried this method and I find I have a good idea about the question performance but I forget individual students and do not have a sense of how well a single student did. In other words, I focus on questions not students and it didn't feel quite right. What say you?
Why would you analyze the test results to see where most students have problems? How would you use that information?
I do not intend to do one question at a time, but one page at a time to alleviate the boredom and at the same time keeping a good pace to mark the test. I believe that it is the responsibility of the teacher to acknowledge and get to know their students throughout the classroom sessions. If a teacher has not identified and understood their students’ capabilities and their challenges, then hundreds of tests will not fill that void. For example a student who understands a lesson, may answer a test question wrong, therefore based on the test assessment I should consider that student as lacking knowledge of that lesson. I have to consider many angles as a teacher when it comes to assessing students marks and examination is only part of the whole picture. Therefore, I can safely achieve an assessment of my students’ capabilities in a test by marking the tests one page at a time.
DeleteAnalyzing the test results will allow me to figure out if I should allocate class time to review a certain lesson or if I should approach particular student individually to work on their challenges. There is no point in reviewing a whole lesson if only two students have challenges with it. I would achieve much better results by spending one on one time with each student.
Part 1/2:
ReplyDelete*Might want to grab a cup of tea or coffee before you start reading...it's a long one!*
I'm sure you can tell how great the video was with the amount of words you're about to read...really got me worked up!
I definitely agree that creating a good assessment is a very time consuming task but it’s something that has to be done. A test/assignment should have well planned out questions that relate to the material taught in class, and the process through which students learned it. It all adds up to more work if you have students with IEPs in your class, as you need to create a different set of test for them. I know it may seem unrealistic but each test should be unique, one of a kind…no repeats! I'm totally against teachers who pull up a test or even a quiz from elsewhere and hand it out in class. I always knew when my teachers made their own tests and when they didn’t.
I think it's critical to create an answer sheet before you give out the test. This gives the teacher an idea of how well the test is planned out and whether changes are required. Also, the teacher can write how much each question is worth on the test so the students get an idea of how much time to spend on the question and how much work they need to show. It always helped me as a student; I would hate for my students to spend 10-15 minutes on a question worth 10% and then rush through the other 90% of the test in half hour.
I also agree that the questions should be very clear; communication is definitely the key in any form of teaching. You cannot assume students will understand what you’re asking for, especially in word problems! I hated the choice of words for some word problems in high school. Depending on where you placed the emphasis, or how you read it, the question changed into a completely new problem! I always left those to struggle with until the end and hoped the entire class would complain about it so the teacher could disregard the question.
I don't think students should be given MORE space than needed on the test because it scares the students. Students want to fill up all the space; if they leave white space it mostly always means they are missing something. From experience, I've seen so many students correctly answer a question in half the space provided and then they start to doubt themselves and their answer because they left empty space. They would overthink and totally get off track with the solution just because they wanted to fill up space. I think the amount of space given should be just enough for a full step by step solution; the answer key should determine the amount of space given. If a student needs extra space, I'd be more than willing to provide them with an extra piece of paper.
I couldn't agree more with dividing a question into steps. Obviously too many steps is overwhelming! I wouldn't have parts a to k for question 1 on a test. Having parts allows the students to work through questions worth 1-3 marks each without freaking out about having a question worth 15 marks on a test. This process allows part marks to be given, something I'm a HUGE fan of. As teachers, we're not out there to get the students or to fail them…we need to work with them step by step so they understand and appreciate what they are learning. Math isn't about getting the correct final answer; it's about understanding the concepts and procedures to find the answer. A student shouldn’t be penalized for making a small mistake if they followed the steps correctly. Everyone makes mistakes, looking over the test doesn't guarantee that they will pick up their mistake. It always happened to me in school, I would make small mistakes on the test, and it’s the pressure I think that we're in during the test environment…the brain just fails to recognize any mistakes because it’s fresh. Even if you know you did something wrong, you can’t always find your mistake. Everyone needs time away from the work in order to come back and see what they did wrong.
(Nabgha)
Hi Nabgha,
DeleteFirst, thank you for taking so much time to articulate your thoughts - you definitely exceeded my expectations and I really appreciate your setting the bar high.
Regarding space, wow do you guess at what "every" student will require to show their work in a problem. Some need more and some need less, so giving a little more space is maybe a good option, especially when you explain to the class why you are doing this. I know you had one memorable experience BUT don't let that dictate your practice for the rest of your life. You need to critically evaluate how you might address this situation. How could I have re-word this suggestion to make it more palatable for you?
I would definitely provide enough space for the students, and they will know this from my lessons in class, and I will also mention that to them. I believe in seeing kids an example of how I expect each type of question to be answered thus I will be modeling for them throughout my lessons. If there's one thing I've learned over the past few months, it is to not let your experiences be the basis of how you're going to teach in the future...every student is unique as is every situation. :)
DeletePart 2/2:
ReplyDeleteGiving a trick question on the assignment is great, however in a test situation you'll be setting your students towards failure and it discourages them. Students are already pressured by the test itself, giving them a surprise question will stress them out more and their brain will shut down. You could throw in a trick question at the end of the test as a bonus for those students that complete the test early. It also helps those students who totally didn't understand a question (and skipped it) to try another question and have a chance to make up for those lost marks. I wouldn't give a bonus question in every test; it would be randomly done a few times. Obviously the trick/bonus question would only be worth 1-5% maximum so it’s fair. Giving a trick question also allows the teacher to get to know if there are some students who are able to apply what they've learned in class to questions they haven't yet seen.
I don't think it's a good idea to provide the students with an answer sheet after the test. The students need a break after the test, they need time to relax and not think about the test they've written. Giving that answer sheet might be helpful to some students, but from my experience, if a student realizes that they didn't do so well after looking at the answer sheet then their entire day gets ruined and they don't focus as much in other classes. I would also tell my students not to discuss their answers after the test (which I know they will) because I find it discourages some students. I hated the crowd who would stand just outside the classroom door and ask everyone what their answers were to each of the questions on the test (or exam) and then compare their answers with the smarter students’ answers. Students always tend to compare their answers with the "smart" students in their class, however they fail to realize that even those smart students can make mistakes and they might not always have the right answer.
I disagree with marking the tests one at a time. I think it's a really bad idea because then you know whose test it is and also, the marking isn't consistent with everyone else’s. I also disagree with marking one question at a time, that's just gets really boring! I would work my way through the tests 1 page at a time. I've always marked this way, I think it's great to go through page by page as you can mark 3-4 questions at a time and be consistent with the marking throughout the class. It also saves so much time, and you really start to focus on the questions you are marking and forget whose test is in your hand. Before I started to mark though, I would create a separate second pile of tests for my students with IEPs or those whom I think are not identified yet have special needs. Going through the second pile would require some extra time and more focus than just blindly following the answer key…for the second pile I might mark one test at a time.
Lastly, I really don’t think you can stay away from giving out a numerical average. Students are always eager to know the average because they want to compare themselves to the class. Yes, it has both good and bad but it helps some students. From experience, almost all the students I’ve tutored always said they made sure their mark was above class average, even if it meant just 1% higher. If they had a lower mark, it motivated them to do better. I would definitely always give my class formative feedback for any kind of assessment done, especially if I wasn’t done marking the tests. However, I wouldn’t keep the numerical averages hidden from the students...maybe I would give them a range (for example: class average is somewhere between 62-68%). I would however, refrain from telling the class the highest and lowest marks; I’m against publically sharing the specific marks as it makes a lot of students feel uncomfortable.
(Nabgha)
*SORRY FOR THE LONG READ...IF YOU MADE IT ALL THE WAY THROUGH TO HERE!*
More questions
DeleteI agree that is might be fairerto mark one question at a time, but (a) how do you get past the boredom and (b) how do you get a sense of the individual student? Also, shouldn't you be looking at teaching and learning, not just saving yourself time. I have tried this method and I find I have a good idea about the question performance but I forget individual students and do not have a sense of how well a single student did. In other words, I focus on questions not students and it didn't feel quite right. What say you?
Regarding "the average" - you, as the professional teacher, need to think about the teaching and learning value of giving averages. What specific kids are asking for the average and why? Kids don't always know what is best for the whole class. In my mind, averages just feed the power of grades and I like to focus on learning. BTW - In my 20 odd years of teaching (even thought 20 is not an odd number) I don't recall students ever wanting the average?
(a) I would never mark 1 question at a time for 20+ tests, I cannot find any way to get over the boredom. Marking 1 page at a time is pretty good.
Delete(b) For students that I feel need extra attention or require my time more to thoroughly look through their papers, I would set those aside and mark them separately.
I agree, a teacher should always have a sense of how well each student is doing in his/her class. After marking the tests 1 page at a time, I have in the past looked through each student's test entirely to see how each student did so I can get a sense of where they stand, how creative students are in answering the questions posed and where they made mistakes. I can then reflect, and give each student positive feedback and further encouragement.
As for "the average", I haven't quiet decided if I'm for it or against it. I've always had students ask me averages or if they were in the best 5 for the class, etc. I feel like it's a way some students get motivated while others get discouraged if they continue to get lower marks. As a student, In high school I've ALWAYS wanted to know the average and bugged my teachers until they told me something about where I stood in the class or what the average was. It was a motivational strategy, always wanted to be a high achiever, especially in math class. I think I probably would give out the average based on one standard deviation of the class mean for unit tests or assignments which are worth a big chunk of their marks.
(Bryan)
ReplyDeleteI agree with most of the points presented in this video. In addition to point 1 though, I had received some tips from some of my university professors during my undergrad: first was that it should take you less than half of the time you give your students to write your own test, and second, you should aim for your students to have a solid B/B+ average.
I agree with the comments on trick questions too; it seems most people here believe that its ok to put trick questions on homework and assessments, but not on evaluations. In fact, I think trick questions or *challenge questions* is actually a good tool in assessing students' learning.
I also wanted to weigh in on the "all at once" vs. "one question at a time" debate, and I think that it depends on the subject you are teaching. Specifically, for math/science/tech., you should be able to mark everything at once, since the answer are relatively prescribed. On the other hand, if you are teaching a subject where some answers may be subjective to the evaluator (i.e. English, History), it might be better to mark the tests question-by-question to keep your marks consistent.
I am also a fan of the idea that you should give general feedback to the class (and personally, I like the idea of taking up the answers to questions that were poorly-done), instead of class averages.
Bryan,
DeleteI would be wary of university teachers and their tips - I have seen some of the very worst examples of teaching in higher education.
I think that is might be fairer to mark one question at a time, but (a) how do you get past the boredom and (b) how do you get a sense of the individual student? Also, shouldn't you be looking at teaching and learning, not just saving yourself time. I have tried this method and I find I have a good idea about the question performance but I forget individual students and do not have a sense of how well a single student did. In other words, I focus on questions not students and it didn't feel quite right. What say you?
I am re-thinking my idea of even giving general feedback because really, the feedback that is important is the specific feedback to the student, at least with respect to learning.
What i really liked about this video, and what a lot of teachers tend to overlook is the clarity of their questions. This probably isn't intentional, because having a great knowledge in a certain area makes things seem obvious to you that might not be so obvious to others. There were times in high school where I wasn't sure of what teachers were asking on tests, but they weren't able to answer my question when asked because they felt that they would be assisting me too much. By being as clear and concise as possible, students will know exactly what they should do and what you're looking for. Also I think that the idea of teach what's already been taught, but I've had teachers who have given questions on area we haven't covered yet, and used this to determine how keen you were on reading the material ahead of time. This doesn't properly evaluate how well you know the material, but how much initiative that a student has, and even though that's a good life skill, it's not testable strength in this situation. One thing I do disagree on is marking the whole test vs. one question. From experience as well I agree with you when you say that it's tiring to look at the same thing over and over, but I feel that it gives you better consistency when marking.
ReplyDelete(Keith)
Keith,
DeleteI think that is might be fairer to mark one question at a time, but (a) how do you get past the boredom and (b) how do you get a sense of the individual student? Also, shouldn't you be looking at teaching and learning, not just saving yourself time. I have tried this method and I find I have a good idea about the question performance but I forget individual students and do not have a sense of how well a single student did. In other words, I focus on questions not students and it didn't feel quite right. What say you?
I agree with the majority of what is said in the video. I do however disagree with the following. I feel that 7 hours is far too long a time to take to to write a math test. The process shouldn't be rushed, but 7 hours is excessive. I agree that writing 2 or more copies is necessary to prevent cheating, however the two tests should fundamentally be the same. I agree with giving plenty of space as I can't tell you how many times I have had to write on the back of the page to finish a question.
ReplyDeleteThe main point that I disagree with is that you must have your questions exactly match what you taught. i think the basic concepts must be the same, but if you simply put the same questions that they have been doing for homework then you are rewarding memorization rather than understanding. By forcing students to take basic knowledge and adapt it to a unique task or application you are allowing the students to answer higher-order questions. While some will struggle with this, the majority will grow as learners as a result.
Hi Stefan,
DeleteWhether you agree with 3-7 hours to create a test won't change the reality. I wasn't advising you that you "should" spend this amount of time, I was notifying that 3-7 hours is how long it takes, unless you photocopy someone else's test of course. Now this is for a first time, brand new test. It is obviously much faster the second time you teach the subject. Good luck, though, on creating test in a shorter time (smile).
Regarding "trick" question, your point has an odd logic. A good teacher should have a clear set of learning goals when he/she teachers and clearly communicate those goals to the students. So changing those specific goals, especially in a test situation, seems unreasonable and unfair. I don't think students can be expected to read the teacher's mind about what they "should" be able to do. Usually, when teacher do this, most students can't do the question. Also, there is a serious amount of research to suggest that humans do no transfer knowledge well. Regurgitation is not a typical learning goal in math - application is the minimum, especially in grades 7 to 12. Can you give me a specific example of a concept you would teach and the kind of "trick" question you think it would be fair to ask?
I am all for challenge question - for many of the reasons you have noted - I don't believe a test is the best format in which to present them.
I didn't really mean to say that we should be asking "trick" questions, but merely questions that differ from the ones they are shown in class or given for homework. For example, if they are shown examples of how to create an expression for a given sequence and then graph that sequence, it would not be unreasonable to ask them to create the expression from a given graph. They are just using skills they already know to solve a problem presented in a slightly different way. This asks students to think rather than just recall.
DeleteAfter watching this video I wish that the teachers assessing me would have considered some of these tips and techniques. One point I couldn't agree more with is that when assessing students with tests is not include trick questions or try and trump your students. When assessing your students you are testing their knowledge and understanding of the content you have taught them. You are not supposed to be assessing the students on what you think they should know. The purpose of these assessments is to gauge how much the the students have learned and retained in your class, not what you should have taught them (in case there wasn't enough time). With regards to marking the whole test or one question on the test, I dislike when teachers only mark one question on the test. Once again, the purpose of the assessment is to gauge the students knowledge and understanding of the content. If you are only answering one question and the student doesn't know that question but they know everything else, then they are getting heavily penalized for not understanding one thing. One point I would question is the time it takes to write a good assessment. But of course I haven't hit that stage yet so I have no proof to disprove this statement. Finally, I appreciate the comment about giving general feedback to the entire class. By doing this and telling the entire class what they can work on, you are not discouraging individual students, and you are giving constructive criticism to the entire class. (Kelly)
ReplyDeleteKelly,
DeleteI have one question - I have been reflecting a little more about giving general feedback to a class. Do you think there is any value in doing that? If so, what is the value? It has occurred to me that all that a student would be interested in is (a) their specific feedback and (b) how they did with respect to the class. The latter reason is probably not a good habit to encourage, at least with respect to promoting good learning. What do you think?
I think there is some value in it. By addressing the entire class, for the students who didn't do as well, you are implying that there are others who might have had the same problems that they did. Also, by reviewing the problems as a class, you can show the students where they went wrong instead of singling them out and taking them aside. Now, many students, including myself, want to know specific feedback but that can be written on their test or assignment by the teacher. By giving general feedback to the class, you are able to address the majority of the problems that occurred during the assessment.
DeleteI guess we need to ask the students after we give feedback - was that general feedback useful (a little survey at the end).
DeleteRepost for Tiffany Lee
ReplyDeleteI definitely agree with being clear with your questions since students can't read your mind and know what you're asking of them. It can really throw the students off (from personal experience) when the students don't understand what is being asked of them. Then it also causes problems with the teacher because you have to go and re-explain to all the students what you're trying to ask them to do. Or if say you get the work back and EVERYONE, didn't give you what you were asking for because the question wasn't clear, then you might have to take that question out and you then wouldn't be able to assess them on that specific question.
I agree with the importance of part marks. Part marks are very critical. I do believe in breaking up each question into steps and carefully determining the marks you want to give for each step, because it helps you mark and it also helps the students get part marks. Also having the steps laid out of how many marks given for each step can help you know how to mark the questions and what marks to give to the students.
From experience, I do like to mark one question better than marking the whole test. I tried also doing the mark whole test first, and that drove me cwazy! I found it more consistent and easier for me to mark one question for all the tests, then move onto the next one and so on.
I like your idea of giving general feedback rather than a numerical average. I never thought of that. The students don't really need to know whether or not they beat the class average or not. From experience as a student, it goes either way. You either feel happy that you beat the class average, but when you don't, it doesn't feel that great and you feel "stupid". I guess it does depend on the situation too. Definitely feel like we can have a debate about this during class.
Overall, I do agree with most of your tips. Thanks for the tips!
Tiffany,
DeleteRegrading part marks - I genuinely wonder if we have to be careful about what we give part marks for. Sometimes students understand a "procedure" in math but really do not understand the concept. They can get a pretty good grade on a question, but my feeling is they really did not understand what was going on? How would you address that?
I think that is might be fairer to mark one question at a time, but (a) how do you get past the boredom and (b) how do you get a sense of the individual student? Also, shouldn't you be looking at teaching and learning, not just saving yourself time. I have tried this method and I find I have a good idea about the question performance but I forget individual students and do not have a sense of how well a single student did. In other words, I focus on questions not students and it didn't feel quite right. What say you?
I have been reflecting a little more about giving general feedback to a class. Do you think there is any value in doing that? If so, what is the value? It has occurred to me that all that a student would be interested in is (a) their specific feedback and (b) how they did with respect to the class. The latter reason is probably not a good habit to encourage, at least with respect to promoting good learning. What do you think?
You do raise a good point, but I don’t think we should penalize them and not give them any part marks. At least they understood something in the math process and I think they should be rewarded marks for that.
Delete(a) I think I’d be equally bored if I mark either the whole test at once or one question at a time. So there is no way to get around the “boredom” of marking.
(b) I don’t understand how marking one question at a time will push you away from seeing how individual students did on a test. Why can’t you assess how a student is doing through one question at a time? I never had that problem.
I feel that giving general feedback to a whole class doesn’t necessarily have any value. When I had teachers that gave feedback to the whole class, I always found it more like a little blurb of introduction announcing that the teacher is handing the test back. I do agree with you where the student is mostly interested in their specific feedback and how they did with respect to the class. So the only value that giving general feedback to the class has is when a student can see how he/she did with respect to the class.
Posted for Taylor
ReplyDeleteI really enjoyed this video, it give us a lot of great suggestions and insights into assessment. Some of the observations that I did not think about, or had not crossed my mind, were having to create multiple versions of the same test if you have multiple classes you are teaching. Or how to accommodate for students on IEP’s. The only point that I feel differently about is the point about marking the whole test at a time. I do not mark the whole test at a time, nor do I mark one question at a time. I prefer to mark one page at a time. I can turn the answer sheet to the page and the flip each students test to the page and go through the entire page at a time. This way I do not get bored with marking the same question 30 times in a row, but I can ensure that I am marking each question on the page fairly and evenly from one test to the next. I really enjoyed this video and this is a great resource for us to have as we go out on our first placement. (Taylor)
Taylor,
ReplyDeleteI would love to hear your thoughts on a few other points as well.
I think that is might be fairer to mark one question at a time, but (a) how do you get past the boredom and (b) how do you get a sense of the individual student? Also, shouldn't you be looking at teaching and learning, not just saving yourself time. I have tried this method and I find I have a good idea about the question performance but I forget individual students and do not have a sense of how well a single student did. In other words, I focus on questions not students and it didn't feel quite right. What say you?
That's a good point. I guess I have not done it enough at this point so I haven't had to worry about the boredom but perhaps getting a sense of the individual student is a good point. I do find it hard to remember how they did on past questions when I get to a certain student and try to remember similar mistakes they made previously in the test. I am sure I may feel differently about this as I mark start a career and mark on a regular basis.
ReplyDelete